Corruption and Waste destroy Civ3

[Coracle]

Originally posted by Tuberski
Then why does everybody play the game the way it is? A lot of people do.

I don't, I reduce corruption to 50% and it seems to help a lot.

ACK!

"Everybody" does NOT play the game the way it is. Many Civ 1 and 2 addicts no longer play it at all and are long gone from this forum.

As for modding it, that helps a little. But his POINT was the game AS PRESENTED BY FIRAXIS is not very playable. That is the result of a rushed product and little playtesting (if any at all).

His other point was it is ABSURD to tie corruption to distance from capital, even in a Democracy. If that was so Alaska and Hawaii would be cesspools of rampant corruption. So there is no realism in Civ 3 either.

[WarpStorm]

I think there should be an option to tie corruption to the amount of time it would take a movement 1 foot unit (a hypothetical government bureacrat) to get from the palace or forbidden palace to the city using any transportation means (road, rail, ROP, Airports, ships, helicopter, etc.). The base corruption for an unconnected city would probably need to be increased to get the numbers right. This would be much more realistic model of corruption and still be simple enough to implement.

[sabrewolf]

exactly, warpstorm.
a few months ago there was a thread about this.

my idea would be:
corruption system stays the same, maybe even slightly higher base corruption, BUT:
- road connection reduces corruption by 5-10%
- railroad by 10-20%
- harbor connection by 10-20%
- airport connection by 20-30%

if city A is connected to B by airport, but city C only has a road to B, then city C just gets the road reduction.

also, technologies should/could reduce corruption, not just governements. there are democracies (e.g. italy) which are more corrupt than republics and communisms.

[Inverse Icarus]

why does this thread always start the day one just like it falls to the second page?

[Panag]

Originally posted by sabrewolf
exactly, warpstorm.
a few months ago there was a thread about this.

my idea would be:
corruption system stays the same, maybe even slightly higher base corruption, BUT:
- road connection reduces corruption by 5-10%
- railroad by 10-20%
- harbor connection by 10-20%
- airport connection by 20-30%

if city A is connected to B by airport, but city C only has a road to B, then city C just gets the road reduction.

also, technologies should/could reduce corruption, not just governements. there are democracies (e.g. italy) which are more corrupt than republics and communisms.

hi ,

a long , long , very long time ago it was asked that Firaxis would include something like state capitals , .... a courthouse and police station should also play a ( small ) role in nearby cities , ......

but we are still waiting , well if we dont give up , who knows , ......

have a nice day

[Panag]

Originally posted by UberKruX
why does this thread always start the day one just like it falls to the second page?

hi ,

its called the theory of evolution , ......;

have a nice day






P.S. what would you do to improve the game when it comes to corruption and waste

[Fried-Psitalon]

Originally posted by Coracle


"Everybody" does NOT play the game the way it is. Many Civ 1 and 2 addicts no longer play it at all and are long gone from this forum.

As for modding it, that helps a little. But his POINT was the game AS PRESENTED BY FIRAXIS is not very playable. That is the result of a rushed product and little playtesting (if any at all).

His other point was it is ABSURD to tie corruption to distance from capital, even in a Democracy. If that was so Alaska and Hawaii would be cesspools of rampant corruption. So there is no realism in Civ 3 either.

I would respectfully disagree- the game is quite playable as it stands. I can prove this simply by saying: lots of people play it. What you mean is *you don't like the way it plays* as Firaxis presents it. And voila, the solution is there as folks have pointed out, in the editor.
I personally think that corruption, as annoying as it is, is probably the only realistic way to stop ancient-era war from exploding to an even greater degree than it does currently! The game as it stands right now leans far too heavily in favor of the warmonger (whether or not history does in fact support the power of warmongers over builders is an interesting, but irrelevant, topic...) Honestly, as much as people complain about the power of warmongering, the case might be made for increasing corruption, particularly in conquered territories...

How would I fix the situation? I think there should be a technological decreaser, say, at Education, Navigation, Steam Power, Motorized Transportation, and then finally Rocketry, as each of these symbolize a significant increase in our ability to communicate information and ideas. There might also be a few INcreases in corruption as well - say, when The Corporation is reasearched. (American history shows a period in which the government struggled a great deal with corporate power; I apologize for my ignorance of the economic history of other nations.)

Corruption could be a lot more than simply a negative impact- it could become a very active facet of the game.

Perhaps other nations could affect your corruption as well through various means. This might be a very useful defense for "Builders" against "Warmongers." I could go further on this but now we're truly stepping into the fantasy realm of what is likely to never be.

[Conqueror]

Corruption and Waste are key elements in the game, without them, it would be just too easy to win. It would be like civ2 - no challenge even you played deity on hugest map.

Corruption & Waste system as it is now on Civ 3 is very good and should not be changed. Everyone who dislikes it can change the corruption to 0 from the editor if they want to play corruption-free civ3

[BigDork]

Originally posted by panag
P.S. what would you do to improve the game when it comes to corruption and waste

Personally I think that corruption and waste should be more related to happiness. From personal experience, I work harder when I am happy with my job then when I totally hate it.

BigD

[Zamphyr]

First: I like warpstorms idea....

Second: Alaska and Hawaii ARE corrupt. Have you ever looked at the legislation their senators submit ?

Third: Uberkrux is right. end thread.

[Coracle]

Originally posted by Zamphyr
First: I like warpstorms idea....

Second: Alaska and Hawaii ARE corrupt. Have you ever looked at the legislation their senators submit ?

That's pretty funny.

Unfortunately for the "logic" you present, the most corrupt state is New Jersey - just look at how Lautenburg stole the Senate election in November. New Jersey has been notorious for corruption for generations. It is a whole lot closer to the capital in Washington than Alaska or Hawaii.

So we see another Firaxis concept makes no sense at all.

[BigDork]

Actually, I bet if you look you could find a whole lotta corruption right in the Capitol itself. Probably more than would be found in a lot of the cities farther away.

BigD

[CrONoS]

I think to balance the game, corruption can be a factor about foreign people. More you got Foreign people in your city, more corruption you got(when you capture city from another civ). This will balanced the game for non-Warmonger people. AND you keep the same Corruption system but decreasing with time, like the idea Fried-Psitalon said before me.
" there should be a technological decreaser, say, at Education, Navigation, Steam Power, Motorized Transportation, and then finally Rocketry, as each of these symbolize a significant increase in our ability to communicate information and ideas. "

And maybe some Hapiness factor.

[petemajor]

When I started playing Civ 3 I hated the corruption model too. I gradually changed the way I played, after figuring out strategies on my own and reading posts here and on http://www.civfanatics.com. Now I love the corruption system - an empire has to be planned, not just tidal-waved with troops!

"It's almost impossible to build a global empire in Civ3..." is the common argument. Uh, *news flash* - of course it is, and of course it should be! That's why it hasn't happened in real life!

I *really* dislike city flipping, but I'm learning to live with it and it hasn't happened to me for at least half a dozen games now and I assume I'll eventually like it as much as the corruption system.

BOTTOM LINE: It's easy to hate a game feature you don't understand and that stops you from winning! So stop playing the same everytime and learn how to beat it!

[Argos65987]

Originally posted by petemajor

BOTTOM LINE: It's easy to hate a game feature you don't understand and that stops you from winning! So stop playing the same everytime and learn how to beat it!

Well said.