OMG!!! Computer Gaming World review

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by WarpStorm
I just never understand the philosophy that any new content should be free. The new civs and single player additions and tweaks alone probably cost Firaxis at least a quarter of a million dollars to make (this is a guess based on the rate for programmers and artists in the US and the general overhead costs of running a business). This is not counting the MP at all.

Why should they give that away for free?

Warpstorm:

I agree that PTW should not have been free, but it is not worth the $30 that I payed for it either. This is a true XP, and should retail at half of the current retail price. Infograms would still make a bundle selling it at the $10-15 price range, and no one would care that MP doesn't work. Personally I don't care about MP, but asking me to pay $30 primarily for a feature that is broken is flat out wrong, Infograms should be ashamed by their greed.

[Tiberius]

Hence the name: InfoGreed.

[tinyp3nis]

The IP changing is real, it happens with some isp. I don't have it, my IP is constant but I have allways assumed games can work around this problem. Is this yet another Ptw flaw or are there no games that can overcome this? I was under the impression that there are, but I'm not 100% sure. Anyone?

[MosesPresley]

The review was fair. Get over it. MP didn't work for most people out of the box.

[player1]

But, was game operational at release is NOT IMPORTANT anymore.

Since reviews serve to review game as it is TODAY, in order to help customers is it worth or not.

So, since TODAY, there are 2 patches, which fixed many probelms review is just LIED customers that game TODAY is still completly unplayable.

[Father Beast]

Originally posted by WarpStorm
I just never understand the philosophy that any new content should be free. The new civs and single player additions and tweaks alone probably cost Firaxis at least a quarter of a million dollars to make (this is a guess based on the rate for programmers and artists in the US and the general overhead costs of running a business). This is not counting the MP at all.

Why should they give that away for free?

So, are you suggesting that the patches released for civ3, that made the game so that it doesn't crash all the time, that made various features work the way they were supposed to (like air superiority),etc. etc., should be PAID FOR???

To some people, and some companies, this comes under the heading of supporting your product. to a lot of people, Civ3 SHOULD have shipped with multiplayer working, Like Alpha Centauri did. The company was even making noises about adding MP in a patch. didn't do it, but since they put it in an XP, I think that we are OK to say that it ought to WORK before we buy it.

AND, correct me if I'm wrong, but all those civs and units available in our files section I believe are available FOR FREE. the creators didn't feel bad about posting the results of who knows how much hard work for free. In fact, I believe the XP is asking people to pay for some of that very content.

hmmmmnnnn......

[player1]

FIRST with 40-50$ you payed for Civ3 you paid for Civ3 patches too.

Now, that price DID NOT include MP.

You agreed, by taking Civ3 that you get SP game, not MP game.

There were some bugs with Civ3, and some of them were FIXED. You got even some bonus material to enchnce gameplay.


So for MP you need to pay extra.


Also, for these 30$, you also pay for all paches that will be released later to fix PtW MP, all later bug-fixes and that Japanisse scenario that will be done later.

You didn't payed for some scenatios shipped with PtW, since they are avaiable wuthout it.

But you payed for thsoe scenarios with BIX extension, since they could only be done by FIraxis, or betatesters.
(and I don't think that betatester want any money for that)

So yes, with 30$ for PtW you already payed for all patches that will be released later.


P.S.
And as for Civ3, I think that it's own patches were pretty good to warant original cost of Civ3.

That's why I bought PtW. If Civ3 patching was bad, and PtW was good as it was with its relvese I would not buy PtW.

But, sicne that's not case, I'm satisfied customer.

[woody]

I agree that multiplayer support shouldn't be free. But is a broken, laggy, poorly implemented multiplayer experience really woth $30?

The other things you get for the $30 are some extra civs, units, and scenarios. Wow... some of that Firaxis just stole from the mod community, and the rest is pretty basic modding. Is that really worth $30?

The bug-fixing in PtW should be free! Bug Firaxis has chosen to abandon the Civ3 players, unless they cough up $30 for future bug-fixes.

By the way, I don't think Firaxis will ever finish PtW (i.e. fix all the bugs and lag in multiplayer). They wouldn't dare make another expansion pack for Civ3, and so there's no incentive to keep the existing community happy.

Civ3 is well worth the $50. PtW... ha!

[player1]

I agree that multiplayer support shouldn't be free. But is a broken, laggy, poorly implemented multiplayer experience really woth $30?

Partialy true. But by paying those 30$ you also payed for FUTURE paches (same with Civ3).

Now considering that Firaxis did good job with original Civ3 pachwork (at least IMHO), I assume that after some time you'll get full 30$ worth from PtW.

I the meantime I'm enjoying PtW the way it is, and if you think that buying after several patches is better option then good luck for you. There are always differnces in opinion.

For me even SP part was worth 30$, but for some it isn't.

The bug-fixing in PtW should be free! Bug Firaxis has chosen to abandon the Civ3 players, unless they cough up $30 for future bug-fixes.

Not much bugfixing here. Mostly AI tweaks.

And testing two versions of the game is just too much expensive for small company as Firaxis.
(and they did same thing with SMAC)

By the way, I don't think Firaxis will ever finish PtW (i.e. fix all the bugs and lag in multiplayer). They wouldn't dare make another expansion pack for Civ3, and so there's no incentive to keep the existing community happy.

Considering that Civ3 patchwork was prretty goos, I assume that PtW MP will be fixed too.

And actuly they are considering possibility of making another expansion pack.

[CrONoS]

Player1:
"And actuly they are considering possibility of making another expansion pack."

Make an another Expansion Pack?????? With MP working? Or just new scenario, new mod, new graphics, new AI tweaking? This is official news or just something you think???

Oh yeah, Player1 MOD is great!!!

[woody]

Originally posted by player1
And testing two versions of the game is just too much expensive for small company as Firaxis.

As a customer, I don't really care what the excuses for cutting off support are, I still want support. Now, maybe you can argue that I only deserved support for 9 months (when they released the last Civ3 patch). But, don't argue that I don't deserve support because Firaxis is a small company. That's just backwards thinking.

Considering that Civ3 patchwork was prretty goos, I assume that PtW MP will be fixed too.

I hope your right, for the PtW owners. But just because they got most of the bugs out of Civ3, doesn't mean they'll do the same with PtW. I think there's now less incentive for them to invest the money in bug-fixes (less buyers), and that many of the problems with PtW are basic design flaws and not simple coding errors.

And actuly they are considering possibility of making another expansion pack.

"Civ3: The final ripoff." It sounds like a Monty Python album!

[Mad Bomber]

Folks, let get something straight here. Firaxis is not the one to blame, it is a contract company hired to do the coding for civ 3 and PTW, they get their marching orders from Infograms. PTW problems are almost wholy related to the decisions Infograms has made not Firaxis. PTW was pushed AHEAD of schedule by Infograms and this is the predictable result. They pushed PTW because they are not making their projected revenue and investors are not happy. If infograms does not pull their head out of their arse they will be going the way of Enron.

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by woody
I hope your right, for the PtW owners. But just because they got most of the bugs out of Civ3, doesn't mean they'll do the same with PtW. I think there's now less incentive for them to invest the money in bug-fixes (less buyers), and that many of the problems with PtW are basic design flaws and not simple coding errors.

Well, it's impossible to predict what they do. But using your arguments, I would have assumed that Civ3 would never be patched. I mean, the sales of Civ3 did not suddenly soar after the patches. If anything, most of the patches were for the benefit of people who already owned the game. Companies don't sell games by advertising patches; that makes the game sound worse.

Really, there never was any incentive for them to make bug-fixes. If fact, there is probably more incentive to fix PTW than there was Civ3 because PTW potential buyers became wary of the company after Civ3 and may be holding out on buying until patches are released (like me).

As for design flaws, I'm not sure how serious most of the problems in regular Civ3 were, but some of the problems were pretty big. Already, however, Firaxis has shown it has both the means and the will to fix PTW problems because of the patches they have already released.

[woody]

Originally posted by Mad Bomber
Folks, let get something straight here. Firaxis is not the one to blame, it is a contract company hired to do the coding for civ 3 and PTW, they get their marching orders from Infograms. PTW problems are almost wholy related to the decisions Infograms has made not Firaxis. PTW was pushed AHEAD of schedule by Infograms and this is the predictable result. They pushed PTW because they are not making their projected revenue and investors are not happy. If infograms does not pull their head out of their arse they will be going the way of Enron.

I think both Firaxis and Infogrames both share responsibility. After the problems with Civ3, it's shameful that the very same sort of problems (but worse!) happened with PtW. Firaxis had to know this before agreeing to the deal. As for Infogrames, well I do hope they go the way of Enron.

Note that Infogrames is losing money (16 cents per share loss) and their book value is already -$1.64! Yes, they're worth less than nothing, and they're losing even more. How long do you figure they can stay solvent with numbers like that?

[player1]

Originally posted by cronos_qc
Player1:
"And actuly they are considering possibility of making another expansion pack."

Make an another Expansion Pack?????? With MP working? Or just new scenario, new mod, new graphics, new AI tweaking? This is official news or just something you think???

They said (unofficialy) that if PtW is selling well, that they would consider making another XP. And in recent chats they said that PtW is selling well.

Of course this is just lots of speculation.

P.S.
Selling well, means selling in expected number (and that number is suppes to be much lower then for orig. Civ3 since it is an XP)

Originally posted by cronos_qc
Oh yeah, Player1 MOD is great!!!

Thanks!