Making Guerillas Useful

[ZargonX]

That, of course, assumes you found them not to be useful to begin with. As for myself, I saw in them the potential to be a good unit, but one that had not been unleashed as of yet.

Taking in to the editor, I decided that the in-game guerillas should function more like real-life guerillas. So, what do guerillas do in the real world? They are hit-and-run units, sneaking through jungles and hills, staying one step ahead of their more powerful foes.

Thanks to the new PTW editor, we can set units to ignore the move cost of certain terrain. So, with a few clicks, my guerillas now ignore jungle, mountains, and hills. Now, that doesn't do much good with just a move of 1, so we bump that up to 2.

Viola! Suddenly, a mediocre unit takes on whole new dimensions! Now the guerillas can swarm in quickly from unexpected directions, tearing up roads and picking away at slower moving units. The 2 move allows them a retreat option, so hit-and-runs are much more viable. And, to top it off, they're cheap. They probably won't win you any wars, but they sure can tear it up behind enemy lines!

Anyone else made any modifications to them worth sharing?

[ducki]

You may be missing the most useful feature of Guerrillas.

They are the culmination of the new Warrior chain.

No longer are swordsmen a "dead-end" unit.

Warriors(1/1)-Swordsmen(3/2)-Med.Inf(4/2)-Guerrilla(6/6) IIRC.

If you're a Horseman purist, this doesn't really affect you.
If you're a Swordsman rusher, this is huge.

[player1]

Of course this change makes Cavalty usuless.
Guerrila are much better.

P.S.
Just remeber that Guerrilas should be balanced before you get Tanks.

[problem_child]

I theink they should have a defense bonus in mountains, jungle and forest. Cheap as in 80 points (the cost of Riflemen) is the right price I think, they should be cheap, a small country should be able to field a healthy supply of em.

Invisiblity is also a good feature for em, so you have to search for em to find them, forces the powerfull nation to have to deploy their infantry forces and cover territory.

[Jaybe]

Zargonx, you forgot "ignore movement cost of Forest" in your post. Otherwise, I have done the same thing, including 2MP (no blitz).

In a defensive situation, they are quite valuable. What with enemy bombers & battleships destroying my communications and infrastructure, my "partisans" in conjunction with artillery are making it tough on enemy tanks who come unescorted (6 attack, 4 HP vs. 8 defense, 1 HP). While I won't win this game, this conflict has been most entertaining!

[Zurai]

Originally posted by player1
Of course this change makes Cavalty usuless.
Guerrila are much better.

P.S.
Just remeber that Guerrilas should be balanced before you get Tanks.

It doesn't make cavalry useless at all. Cavalry come earlier than Guerrilas (much earlier in some strategies), and they're faster over open terrain, like say most of your enemy's empire. Guerrilas are only more useful in enclosed terrain, like rooting out those last few jungle cities to wipe the enemy civ off the planet

[joncnunn]

I think the Guerrilas should have the following:

ADM : 662 + all terraign as roads

Hidden Nationality
Invisibile
Detect Invisible units

Everyone will need to protect their workers.

[Caliban]

I already posted this ten thousand times in various threads:

ADM: 0.4.1

All terrain as roads
Hidden nationality

Won't capture workers/ conquer cities, but could cause serious problems by pillaging WITHOUT a declaration of war...

[Zero]

I think Guerrillas should be 6/6/1 with the same cost of infantry but w/o rubber req.

wait... thats how the game it is!

[Ghengis-Sean]

You know, a better way to go with swordsmen would be to have them uprgrade to riflemen and then use the guerilla as a stand alone unit. Or how about this, how about cavalry uprgading to Guerilla? If you're going to give the guerilla better movement it makes sense.

[problem_child]

Che_Guavaras aren't about rapid mobility, they're about hit and run- strike and dissapear, doesn't mean they get to cover territory like cavalry can. I don't think we should get carried away with this whole Guerilla/Cavalry equivalencing- the two have nothing to do with eachover.

Course, you don't need my permission to do what you want, I'm just sayin is all.

[kgoodrid]

I think we need to decide what the Guerilla is being modeled after. Is it an elite commando? It is a poor stand in for Infantry?

I intepret the Guerilla as a VC type unit. If that is the case, it should be cheap, available without resources, and unable to last in a stand up fight.

No visible nationality: would be nice because it would simulate the difficulties faced by the US in identifying the enemy in Nam. However, on the large scale, it would make them more like covert ops, which Guerillas are not. So, I would say 'no' to this option.

Extra movement: No. Guerillas lack the massive supply trains of large units, but they also lack any mobilized transport, which even leg infantry can sometimes get.

Move with Roads: Yes. Similar to the old Partisan unit. This allows them to swiftly move around tough terrain that would slow large units. This make them faster in rough terrain than tanks, but slower on roads, as is appropriate.

ADM: This is the tough part. They should be weaker on the attack than Infantry, and perhaps even weaker than Riflemen. This would simulate their poor equipment and supply. I would say attack of no more than 5. Defense is very tough. They should be strong when dug in rough terrain, but still not able to slow a large enemy unit. Defense no more than 6.

The Guerilla should be a good unit for poor nations to deploy to harass stonger, more advanced enemies. It should not be something that an advanced nation produces. Covert Ops / Special Forces units are too small to be simulated outside of the Espionage options.

[HAND]

[SIZE=1]
ADM: This is the tough part. They should be weaker on the attack than Infantry, and perhaps even weaker than Riflemen. This would simulate their poor equipment and supply. I would say attack of no more than 5. Defense is very tough. They should be strong when dug in rough terrain, but still not able to slow a large enemy unit. Defense no more than 6.

I disagree with them having attack less then 6. The success of guerillas in the world, is due to the enemy being surprised and being in fear of being surprised. Psychological warfare is the key.

[Captain THC]

The only change I'd make to Guerilla's would be to make their upgrade costs from Longbowmen and Med. Infantry much cheaper. Say, 20 gold, as opposed to the ridiculous 100 gold they cost now.

[Captain THC]

Perhaps they could also ignore the defensive bonus' of the units they're attacking given to them by terrain.