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Hi Everyone,
I know I've brought this up before, but I thought I'd put it in the context of a Poll, so I can gauge "public opinion" on this issue.
For my part, I liked the concept of the senate in Civ2, but disliked how it was implemented (too random!) What I would like to see is the reintroduction of the Senate, but with some Civ3-specific features, which would make it less random in nature.
Like Civ2, the primary role of the senate would be in Diplomacy. Whether the senate attempts to oppose your will on diplomacy will depend primarily on your Civs characteristics.
For instance, the senates of militaristic and expansionist civs will tend to oppose formal peace treaties with newly encountered civs-unless they want an RoP or declaration of war on a 3rd party, oppose the ceasation of wars and try to get you to declare war on other nations. They will also urge you to adopt an aggressive tone in any negotiations.
The senates of Religious and Commercial Civs, on the other hand, will push for peace treaties and try to end existing wars as much as possible. They will urge you to take a concillatory tone in negotiations, and will urge you to make trade and/or MPP agreements.
Lastly, the senates of industrious and scientific civs can go either way, with the prevailing mood being decided by the civs Secondary characteristics (militaristic, commercial, etc).
These characterisics would also effect what types of trade deals the senate will push for!
For example, "military/expansionist" senates will push for cities/units, gpt and maps.
"Comercial/religious" senates, on the other hand, will push for luxuries, communications and gpt.
"Industrious" senates will seek strategic resources, shields/turn (see below) and technologies.
Scientific senates will push for techs, science pacts (see below) and communications.
Obviously these attitudes would not be set in stone, but would be modified according to other criteria, including:
1) International reputation of other Civ.
2) Similar cultural type (Asian, European etc).
3) Major differences in size and/or cultural, economic, military or technological strength.
4) War Weariness.
5) The government of the other Civ (i.e. non-democratic governments will be frowned on, other democratic governments will be more favoured).
Things would get interesting when you have more unusual combinations of civ traits. For example, a civ with Commercial/Militaristic traits might normally be quite peaceful, but the senate may be quick to urge a war with another civ if you don't recieve an acceptable trade agreement from them (probably hoping for a quick, decisive war, leading to a better negotiating position!) Another possibility might be a Religious/Militaristic or Religious/Expansionist civ, whose senate might urge you to go to war with Civs that have a different culture to yours (citing "religious differences"!)
The way I'd envisage the senate acting would be 3-fold.
1) The Senate can declare war/sign peace behind your back (though you may veto them in the same turn)
2) When you make an offer to another civ, a pop-up box would appear if the senate does not approve of your deal (the box would say "Senate is trying to block this agreement). Again you can veto this decision by pressing the "Veto" button on the pop-up.
3) In the diplomatic screen, their could be a "Senate" button. When you press it, the senate's preferred settlement will appear on the negotiating table!
If you veto or ignore the senate's attempts to block you three times (non-consecutively) then you would trigger anarchy and have to form a new government.
Obviously, if this idea were to work to it's fullest extent, I'd like to see the following new ideas in the game:
1) As in Civ2, the U.N should allow you to veto the senate on peace/war issues 50% of the time, without counting towards your 3-time limit.
2) Civil War! Senate dissolution should not only lead to anarchy, but also serve as a potential trigger for civil war
3) More diplomatic options, such as science pacts, units trading, multilateral deals, protectorates and full alliances.
4) The ability to "vector" food and production shields to any city or civ on your trade network (this might allow you to sell food for gold or shields for gold and vice-versa to represent commodity trading!)
5) The ability to "vector" finished improvements/units to other cities, allowing you to build units/improvements in one city and have them shipped to another city.
Anyway, there you have it. I look forward to hearing what other people think and, if you have any of your own ideas on how the senate should work, I'd be glad to hear it!
Sorry for such a long post!
Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.
I know I've brought this up before, but I thought I'd put it in the context of a Poll, so I can gauge "public opinion" on this issue.
For my part, I liked the concept of the senate in Civ2, but disliked how it was implemented (too random!) What I would like to see is the reintroduction of the Senate, but with some Civ3-specific features, which would make it less random in nature.
Like Civ2, the primary role of the senate would be in Diplomacy. Whether the senate attempts to oppose your will on diplomacy will depend primarily on your Civs characteristics.
For instance, the senates of militaristic and expansionist civs will tend to oppose formal peace treaties with newly encountered civs-unless they want an RoP or declaration of war on a 3rd party, oppose the ceasation of wars and try to get you to declare war on other nations. They will also urge you to adopt an aggressive tone in any negotiations.
The senates of Religious and Commercial Civs, on the other hand, will push for peace treaties and try to end existing wars as much as possible. They will urge you to take a concillatory tone in negotiations, and will urge you to make trade and/or MPP agreements.
Lastly, the senates of industrious and scientific civs can go either way, with the prevailing mood being decided by the civs Secondary characteristics (militaristic, commercial, etc).
These characterisics would also effect what types of trade deals the senate will push for!
For example, "military/expansionist" senates will push for cities/units, gpt and maps.
"Comercial/religious" senates, on the other hand, will push for luxuries, communications and gpt.
"Industrious" senates will seek strategic resources, shields/turn (see below) and technologies.
Scientific senates will push for techs, science pacts (see below) and communications.
Obviously these attitudes would not be set in stone, but would be modified according to other criteria, including:
1) International reputation of other Civ.
2) Similar cultural type (Asian, European etc).
3) Major differences in size and/or cultural, economic, military or technological strength.
4) War Weariness.
5) The government of the other Civ (i.e. non-democratic governments will be frowned on, other democratic governments will be more favoured).
Things would get interesting when you have more unusual combinations of civ traits. For example, a civ with Commercial/Militaristic traits might normally be quite peaceful, but the senate may be quick to urge a war with another civ if you don't recieve an acceptable trade agreement from them (probably hoping for a quick, decisive war, leading to a better negotiating position!) Another possibility might be a Religious/Militaristic or Religious/Expansionist civ, whose senate might urge you to go to war with Civs that have a different culture to yours (citing "religious differences"!)
The way I'd envisage the senate acting would be 3-fold.
1) The Senate can declare war/sign peace behind your back (though you may veto them in the same turn)
2) When you make an offer to another civ, a pop-up box would appear if the senate does not approve of your deal (the box would say "Senate is trying to block this agreement). Again you can veto this decision by pressing the "Veto" button on the pop-up.
3) In the diplomatic screen, their could be a "Senate" button. When you press it, the senate's preferred settlement will appear on the negotiating table!
If you veto or ignore the senate's attempts to block you three times (non-consecutively) then you would trigger anarchy and have to form a new government.
Obviously, if this idea were to work to it's fullest extent, I'd like to see the following new ideas in the game:
1) As in Civ2, the U.N should allow you to veto the senate on peace/war issues 50% of the time, without counting towards your 3-time limit.
2) Civil War! Senate dissolution should not only lead to anarchy, but also serve as a potential trigger for civil war
3) More diplomatic options, such as science pacts, units trading, multilateral deals, protectorates and full alliances.
4) The ability to "vector" food and production shields to any city or civ on your trade network (this might allow you to sell food for gold or shields for gold and vice-versa to represent commodity trading!)
5) The ability to "vector" finished improvements/units to other cities, allowing you to build units/improvements in one city and have them shipped to another city.
Anyway, there you have it. I look forward to hearing what other people think and, if you have any of your own ideas on how the senate should work, I'd be glad to hear it!
Sorry for such a long post!
Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.
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