We need more terrains

[Panag]

Originally posted by WarpStorm


Only a couple of hours for terrain? Hey Sn00py, how many hours did you spend on your terrain? I'm guessing at least 8 hours or so per tile set. I spent at least that on mine.

You would have to do about that much more for each new tile type. It's a geometric progression. A new tile transition file would have to be generated for each tile type that that terrain can be adjacent to. For example if I had a savanah that could be next to desert, grass, plains and coasts this would be 4 new files at however many hours a piece. If I then added a marsh tile that could be next to all of them (and the new savanah tiles) that would add 10 more tiles sets and so on.

After a while this would be nearly impossible to extend in a reasonable time.

hi ,

at firaxis they are not working with one person , ........

at 09 00 they meet , decide what new terrain goes in it
at 10 00 six people start on it
break 12 00 - 1400
14 to 18 00

lets see thats 6 hours times 6 , .... = 36 , ........

since they know how to do it , have great comps , the whole rimram , yeah they can do it in a day or two , .......

thats how easy it would be for them , .......



have a nice day

[WarpStorm]

No, they have one person who does terrain, Nick. The speed of the computer doesn't matter unless you've got a pathetic computer, it's strictly on how fast you can do quality tiles. 81 tiles per set. Even if you know how, it still takes a while to do them and get the seams correct. Even if you have more artists, after a certain point throwing more people at the problem usually makes things take longer rather than shorter (artistic differences, miscommunications, etc.) Nine women can't make a baby in a month. Plus there's that whole artistic vision thing.

Try it and you'll see.

[Panag]

Originally posted by WarpStorm
No, they have one person who does terrain, Nick. The speed of the computer doesn't matter unless you've got a pathetic computer, it's strictly on how fast you can do quality tiles. 81 tiles per set. Even if you know how, it still takes a while to do them and get the seams correct. Even if you have more artists, after a certain point throwing more people at the problem usually makes things take longer rather than shorter (artistic differences, miscommunications, etc.) Nine women can't make a baby in a month. Plus there's that whole artistic vision thing.

Try it and you'll see.

hi ,

okay so what , even if they have only one person , that still means one new type every week , .....

lets ask in the friday chat , ....

have a nice day

[WarpStorm]

Ah, but you're forgetting the geometric progression thing I mentioned earlier. He could do the first new terrain in a week, but the second would take two weeks, and the third would take three weeks to do.

Actually, I'm not against more terrains, I'd like to see a few more also. I'm just intimately aware of exactly how much work it is now.

[Panag]

Originally posted by WarpStorm
Ah, but you're forgetting the geometric progression thing I mentioned earlier. He could do the first new terrain in a week, but the second would take two weeks, and the third would take three weeks to do.

Actually, I'm not against more terrains, I'd like to see a few more also. I'm just intimately aware of exactly how much work it is now.

hi ,

even then , that would still mean a couple sets in a couple months , ......

have a nice day

[XarXo]

Firaxis can't create a graphic program to generate transitions? You just have to create the main terrain and the program create the combinations.

[Level]

It is posible but it would be very square and ugly, you could edit it but that would take a long time.

[Bolt]

But that should at least lessen the total time: auto + edit < scratch.

[WarpStorm]

Well, that's what I did in mine, The 8 hours per tile set started after the auto part.

[FrostyBoy]

btw warpstorm, it takes me about 8 hours, but this new mod I am working on (the 90% incomplete one) takes me a few days. Because each terrain tile is being worked on as if I was drawing a painting. I'm doing it with a tiny paint brush and carefully illustrating any tree's, cliffs, waterfalls, hills, etc. This is why it's taking me so long. I only have one more tileset to go through, and it's the easiest one (of the land tilesets).

[WarpStorm]

Sn00py, I found the ones with coast to be the hardest in my tileset. They are they ones I'm still not happy with, which is why I'm at 95% on my tileset. Yours look awesome. I especially like the transparent water look.

I started by coming up with common edge transitions building the frame of each tile and working inwards. I based mine very closely on Nick's original style (people may complain, but I like the original style), with a more "wet" brush, darker shadows, and a more faded browner palette. I was trying for an old-timey map. When I'm happy with it I'll probably palette shift it into an ancient parchment variant.

BTW, thanks Sn00py. I learned a lot on how to do this by comparing what you did with the Firaxis tiles. It's not like anyone ever wrote up how to do this stuff. I am winging it.

[dovlvn]

I think the need is not so much for more terrain types ( I agree it may require too much mods) but more terraforming ability of terrain especially in industrial and modern eras which currentiy in civ 3 there is laughably little change in those eras (unlike smac). it should be possible by mod era to turn desert to forests (and vice versa) and irrigate tundras and mountains. that would increase playability of those eras and show the real changing importance and use of terrain and the sudden capacity of desert citys (like phonix or alberqurque) or siberian ones to grow thanks to tech imp

[Martinus Magnificus]

it has been mentioned before that a tile in Civ 3 actually represents an area of ceveral thousands of acres. To turn a desert that size into a forest or even plains, even if the technologies to do so would exist (which they do not at the present day!) would take ages. Yes, you can irrigate a desert to make it somewhat more productive, but that concept is already present in Civ 3. To change an entire mountain range into hills or even grasslands would be even more ridiculous and unrealistic.

[dovlvn]

Originally posted by Martinus Magnificus
it has been mentioned before that a tile in Civ 3 actually represents an area of ceveral thousands of acres. To turn a desert that size into a forest or even plains, even if the technologies to do so would exist (which they do not at the present day!) would take ages. Yes, you can irrigate a desert to make it somewhat more productive, but that concept is already present in Civ 3. To change an entire mountain range into hills or even grasslands would be even more ridiculous and unrealistic.

1.we are capable already today of large scale terraforming (see a nice amount of the mid west) with foresting and pumping projects and explosives (atomic and otherwise).the only limit is eco concerns and the heavy cost (that could be represented in civ3 in large num of turns)anyway civ3 ends 20-30 years ahead of today so some leeway is permitted
2.it will make advanced game far more interesting with some marginal cities suddenly capable of growing)
3far easier to add then new terrain types

[WarpStorm]

Which parts of the mid-west are terraformed? Note that I don't consider irrigation or reforestation terraforming. In addition, anything that requires contiuous pumping of water is just irrigation, albeit on a big scale. If you shut off the pumps and it dries up, it's not terraformed.