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I would like the poeple in the city that is about to flip to slowly copnvert into the nation they are bout to flip to and maybe start som resistence (just like a captured city does) and THEN flip. The only thing i don't like about flipping is that in 1973 everything is calm and in 1974 a couple of millins citizens declare themselves Frennch or whatever. In reality cultureflipping is a slow and complicated process.
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You are half true. Let me explain:Originally posted by statusperfect
In reality culture flipping is a slow and complicated process.
IMHO in civ3 there are 2 kinds of "city flipping" combined under the generic name of "culture flipping":
- the first is some kind of armed rebbelion, when the population revolts against a foreign rule. Basically this is a flip based on "nationalism" (Kosovo?)
- the second is a cultural assimilation, when a city, beeing under the influence of a culturally powerful and wealthy civ decides to flip (btw, I encountered flipping cities even in civ1, but very rarely and I don't know based on what mechanism?). Now this is indeed a slow and progressive process.
Since these 2 processes are related to each other (nationality is an integral part of a civ's cultural identity) I find it logical that Firaxis combined them and worked out a formula that works for both cases. Maybe it's not perfect, but in terms of gameplay is simple and playable (and for me enjoyable)."The only way to avoid being miserable is not to have enough leisure to wonder whether you are happy or not. "
--George Bernard Shaw
A fast word about oral contraception. I asked a girl to go to bed with me and she said "no".
--Woody AllenComment
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Reading it twice, it is actually very interesting what you are suggesting here. Basically it would be a flipping in more steps, not just one; a conversion, not a sudden flip (a sudden flip would still occur when too many conditions are met; this could happen in wars, after an enemy conquest). The problem is, how this can be done? A change in people's nationality is even less realistic than suddenly flipping cities.Originally posted by statusperfect
I would like the poeple in the city that is about to flip to slowly copnvert into the nation they are bout to flip to and maybe start som resistence (just like a captured city does) and THEN flip.
It would be interesting even for culture flippers, like myself. Right now I just wait, and wait, and don't know when will a city finally flip."The only way to avoid being miserable is not to have enough leisure to wonder whether you are happy or not. "
--George Bernard Shaw
A fast word about oral contraception. I asked a girl to go to bed with me and she said "no".
--Woody AllenComment
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Indeed.When a capitol falls unrest should spread throughout the Empire, and foreigners could see this as chance to break their bonds.Perhaps when a civ is at war with an enemy culturally linked with its conquered peoples(France is at war with Rome, some Greek cities under French control view the Romans as liberators instead of just another tyrants),occupied cities would revolt and the populace fights it out with the garisson.What you have described here is called in civ3's terms: "culture flipping" (the Hungarians flipped back to the western European culture, etc). Only it is not possible with civs that were totally destroyed/conquered. This could be an interesting addition. Maybe it could happen to civs that have a very high rate of corruption, low culture, unhappiness, or somebody conquers their capitol, etc. (there must be a trigger to activate such a rebellion)
Low culture and corruption should certainly be another factor, just remember how quickly the Mongol Empire collapsed.Actually the Mongols were assimilated into the very cultures they conquered."Military training has three purposes: 1)To save ourselves from becoming subjects to others, 2)to win for our own city a possition of leadership, exercised for the benefit of others and 3)to exercise the rule of a master over those who deserve to be treated as slaves."-Aristotle, The Politics, Book VII
All those who want to die, follow me!
Last words of Emperor Constantine XII Palaiologos, before charging the Turkish hordes, on the 29th of May 1453AD.Comment
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East Germany, 1989.
That was triggered by the general colapse of the
Soviet Union and the ensuing anarchy( In civ3 terms the Soviets changed their goverment from communism to democracy, or perhaps republic?, and were experiencing a period of anarchy in which opressed peoples saw a chance to revolt.)
I believe anarchy and corruption should be causes for revolts.
P.S You didn't really believe i would admit a mistake,did you?
How do you guys have your quotes write underneath "originally posted by x ""Military training has three purposes: 1)To save ourselves from becoming subjects to others, 2)to win for our own city a possition of leadership, exercised for the benefit of others and 3)to exercise the rule of a master over those who deserve to be treated as slaves."-Aristotle, The Politics, Book VII
All those who want to die, follow me!
Last words of Emperor Constantine XII Palaiologos, before charging the Turkish hordes, on the 29th of May 1453AD.Comment
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It doesn't matter what was the trigger. Civ3 has several triggers, too. Low culture, anarchy, corruption and unhappiness increases the chance of a flip, while WLTKdays, miltary units and high culture decreases it. The city flips when a sum of these conditons is met. So was in East Germany in 1989.
In 1956 Hungary flipped too and the Sovjet Union wasn't in anarchy back then. It's another question that they reoccupied it. You can do this, too, in Civ3.
No, I didn'tP.S You didn't really believe i would admit a mistake,did you?
When you answer to a post there are above it several links, including one called "quote" (near "edit"). Click that when you answer and "originally posted by x" will automatically appear.How do you guys have your quotes write underneath "originally posted by x ""The only way to avoid being miserable is not to have enough leisure to wonder whether you are happy or not. "
--George Bernard Shaw
A fast word about oral contraception. I asked a girl to go to bed with me and she said "no".
--Woody AllenComment
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Well it's an easy and 100% perfect option. No civilization, no culture flip, no rebellion.Originally posted by Caliban
Exterminate the enemy civilization and forget about population of that nationality.
But I like Palaiologos idea of civil war. Perhaps he was inspired from his own historical background: think of the Greek uprising for independence against the oppressive Turks. So rebellion should be included but of course when I put a full army of tanks in this city the rebellion should be over as fast as it started
Dance to Trance
Proud and official translator of Yaroslavs Civilization-Diplomacy utility.Comment
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Of course only if your army doesn't fraternize with the rebbels!Originally posted by Galvatron
... but of course when I put a full army of tanks in this city the rebellion should be over as fast as it started
"The only way to avoid being miserable is not to have enough leisure to wonder whether you are happy or not. "
--George Bernard Shaw
A fast word about oral contraception. I asked a girl to go to bed with me and she said "no".
--Woody AllenComment
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Exactly.Originally posted by Galvatron
Well it's an easy and 100% perfect option. No civilization, no culture flip, no rebellion.
But I like Palaiologos idea of civil war. Perhaps he was inspired from his own historical background: think of the Greek uprising for independence against the oppressive Turks. So rebellion should be included but of course when I put a full army of tanks in this city the rebellion should be over as fast as it started
"Military training has three purposes: 1)To save ourselves from becoming subjects to others, 2)to win for our own city a possition of leadership, exercised for the benefit of others and 3)to exercise the rule of a master over those who deserve to be treated as slaves."-Aristotle, The Politics, Book VII
All those who want to die, follow me!
Last words of Emperor Constantine XII Palaiologos, before charging the Turkish hordes, on the 29th of May 1453AD.Comment
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Thanks a lot Tiberius.It was really helpfull.When you answer to a post there are above it several links, including one called "quote" (near "edit"). Click that when you answer and "originally posted by x" will automatically appear."Military training has three purposes: 1)To save ourselves from becoming subjects to others, 2)to win for our own city a possition of leadership, exercised for the benefit of others and 3)to exercise the rule of a master over those who deserve to be treated as slaves."-Aristotle, The Politics, Book VII
All those who want to die, follow me!
Last words of Emperor Constantine XII Palaiologos, before charging the Turkish hordes, on the 29th of May 1453AD.Comment
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Warsaw near the end of WW2, as the Sov's advanced rose up and actualy took back the city, for all intents and purposes, this was Poland (a dead civ) rising up again, or a culture flip to Russia, whichever your view holds.
(Its another question entirely that the Sov's refused to help them because they werent Communists and subsequently the Germans marched in and brutaly quelled the rebellion, all of which actualy happens in Civ3, the Ruskies just refused to take the city)
As an example of a culture flip that actualy happened:
Newfoundland, late 1940's. The province had a referendum, on it were three choices, 1, join USA, 2, Join Canada, 3, become Independent of britian. Of course, Canadian culture prevailed over Yankee culture and we now have the province of Newfoundland as part of our nation.TWO FISTED MONKEY STYLE ATTACK!Comment
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Oops... no historical comments, please...Originally posted by whosurdaddy
You Germans ....
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Um, the soviet union didnt change governments till 1991, the berlin wall fell in 89. So....Originally posted by Palaiologos
That was triggered by the general colapse of the
Soviet Union and the ensuing anarchy( In civ3 terms the Soviets changed their goverment from communism to democracy, or perhaps republic?, and were experiencing a period of anarchy in which opressed peoples saw a chance to revolt.)
Eastern europe didnt break its bond because the SU fell, the SU fell because eastern europe broke its bonds
(well, i am REALLY over symplyfying in that last paragraph. The SU fell due to many, many conditions, i just dont want to bore you with a 256 russian history (and thats just 1980-1991 ie. Gorbachev) )Comment
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Originally posted by AlecTrevylan00
Um, the soviet union didnt change governments till 1991, the berlin wall fell in 89. So....
Eastern europe didnt break its bond because the SU fell, the SU fell because eastern europe broke its bonds
In addition to this, Eastern Germany (and other European countries) tried "culture flipping" once before by revolting (in 1953). The soviets disrupted the uprising by using force, i.e. tanks to get rid of the protesters. So culture flipping can be prevented by stationing military forces in a city. And we can find this in CivIII...Comment
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Ok Caliban, Alec Trevylan00 point taken.
But what about the Greek war of independance, the Egyptian revolts against the Persians and Vercicentorix?
How are these revolts of tottaly subjucated nations implemented in civ3?"Military training has three purposes: 1)To save ourselves from becoming subjects to others, 2)to win for our own city a possition of leadership, exercised for the benefit of others and 3)to exercise the rule of a master over those who deserve to be treated as slaves."-Aristotle, The Politics, Book VII
All those who want to die, follow me!
Last words of Emperor Constantine XII Palaiologos, before charging the Turkish hordes, on the 29th of May 1453AD.Comment
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