Culture flip to be an option!

[FrantzX]

http://www.gamespy.com/previews/august02/civ3ptw/index2.shtml

As we continued looking at the editor, Morris touched on the ability to flip civs to your side via your civ's cultural status. "We really thought that was a neglected aspect of these Civilization-type games, was the non-military, non-commercial functions," says Morris. "If you're a major cultural power with a lot of libraries or wonders, things that generate a lot of cultures, next to a culturally weak civ, that civ might 'flip' to your side and defect." However, Morris added that fans tend to either love or hate this feature, so you'll be able to enable or disable it in the scenario editor.

[Thrawn05]

Yet another option in the editor I'll never use.

[frostycreep]

Without culture flipping there will be no need for a warmonger to build anything other than millitay units. Thanks to culture flipping a warmonger has to have a half decent culture in order to stop everything he captures revolting back, and thats the way it should be. Culture flippin is a very important thing in civ 3 as its there to make sure warmongering isnt to easy. It should never be taken out.

[Falconius]

Yeah, but it's a good option for the people who absolutely despise it. At least that continuous rant will come to an end.

[Ming]

Gee... I hope they make it a game option for MP games It would make things a lot easier to deal with.

[miccofl]

Gee... I hope they make it a game option for MP games It would make things a lot easier to deal with.

Are you refering to game-play or moderating?

It will be good to put the rants to rest (if that is possible) and it should be a good way to keep some multi-play situations from becoming too unpleasant. However, I wonder how this will affect the espionage mission "initiate propaganda."

[Coracle]

No one ever said "Eliiminate Culture" from the game. I have suggested many ways to keep it important in the development of a civilization.

The issue has always been the unrealistic, absurd, non-historical, and profoundly annoying way borders flip (over improvements and resources) and the way towns and cities flip (even with disappearing large garrisons).

I haven't played a complete game since I lost NINE military when a town of '1' flipped. Absurd. We have asked for a Flip Warning, but no, we get some arcane and arbitrary "formula" to figure out, as if the game isn't tedious enough.

With "historical" scenarios, Flipping must be turned off TOTALLY - unless in a WW II game you want to see half of your tanks vanish.

The WAY culture has been treated in the game is a joke.
You want to make it a FANTASY game then just say so; but don't call it Civ 3, though.

"Warmongers"?? As I said, culture can and should play a part. But historically CONQUEST, and military intimidation, have been prime movers. But I suppose the PC types at Firaxis wanted some "non-war" concept in the game to push a "peaceful" approach. No thanks.

If I can't control Flipping, and turn it off totally in scenarios, I don't buy PTW, and won't even play it at all.

[Coracle]

http://www.gamespy.com/previews/aug...tw/index2.shtml

. . . "If you're a major cultural power with a lot of libraries or wonders, things that generate a lot of cultures, next to a culturally weak civ, that civ might 'flip' to your side and defect." However, Morris added that fans tend to either love or hate this feature, so you'll be able to enable or disable it in the scenario editor.

In otherwords, someone at Firaxis JUST DREAMED UP this Flipping nonsense without any regard for history, and no playtesting before implementing it.

Yep. Just as I always said.

[alva]

I don't mind the 'flipping' cities, I actually like the cultural thing .(even if it isn't perfectly implemented)
But I do agree about the units in there, wich is quite silly.

But it seems it will be all or nothing in PTW

[Ming]

Originally posted by Coracle
In otherwords, someone at Firaxis JUST DREAMED UP this Flipping nonsense without any regard for history, and no playtesting before implementing it.

Yep. Just as I always said.

Only you could "read that into" what was written.
Typical Coracle response...

[JtheJackal]

It says its in the editor, no indication for normal game. Its to prevent culture flipping in things like WW2.

[Robert]

Gee... I hope they make it a game option for MP games It would make things a lot easier to deal with.

nah, if I want a mp game to be easier dealt with, I know more options we can take out of it.

and the way towns and cities flip (even with disappearing large garrisons).

yeah, that's what uproaring civilians they usually do with enemy garrisons. They kill them. Is that so strange?

I haven't played a complete game since I lost NINE military when a town of '1' flipped.

Then you must be a double civ3 newbie,
since everybody knows that you should NOT put more than 3 units in a city near the body that could switch. For sure not after you conquered it.

And 2nd, a size-one city should, after you conquered it, be filled with much cultural improvements, like temples.

3rd, if you have build that city yourself, you shouldn't have build it near the border, or you shouldn't have waited that long building a temple.

We have asked for a Flip Warning

yeah, sure. That's what uproaring civilians usually do, they go to the major of the city and say "Hey, we're going to overtrow you tomorrow 8 pm. Be there!"

With "historical" scenarios, Flipping must be turned off TOTALLY - unless in a WW II game you want to see half of your tanks vanish.

that's right, Paris, to name just a city, didn't flip at all, did it? Did you EVER read any historical books about ww2?

Conclusion, culture is another concept you must be able to control in this game. If you can't, you're most obviously a total civ3 rookie. I'm playing huge emperor 16 player maps, and it doesn't bother me at all. Now and then I lose a city, pherhaps 1 or 2 in a game. But that's no problem since I know which cities are on danger to flip, and there are units near to retake it the turn after I took it.

Indeed, it costs me 3 tanks.......
but hey, what's 3 tanks on an army of 120?

Coracle, learn to play the game. Your complains make no sence at all. It just shows how worse you can play it.

[Palaiologos]

Culture flipping should be an option not only in scenarios but in the normal game as well.

If culturally advanced civilizations overthrew the garrissons of inferior civilizations then how did the mongols conquered half the world,including advanced China, India, Persia and eastern Europe.

I think fireaxis has mistaken cultural influence and assimilation with political control.

Perhaps a rebelion could occur when the population outnumbers the installed garrison(i.e 4 units garrison a 9 level city).That would explain the destruction of the garrison by the mob.

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Coracle
I haven't played a complete game since I lost NINE military when a town of '1' flipped.

I didn't even notice it at first, but here he is again. Thanks for quoting it, Cybershy.

Coracle, I'm still not sure whether I have to call this bending the truth, or I simply have to call you a liar. You know damn well it was not a 'size 1 with 9 garrison flip'. It was a 'size 1 city +7 foreign tiles with 8 garrison flip', where you had a significant cultural disadvantage. It was your own stupid mistake to stack your entire small attack force in there, and I can't help but smile that you lost it. Like Cybershy said: learn the game, instead of whining about things you don't understand.

If I can't control Flipping, and turn it off totally in scenarios, I don't buy PTW, and won't even play it at all.

Please Firaxis, don't put an option in to turn it off in PTW! If this means we would lose Coracle, I'll gladly have flipping scenarios!

A bit on topic: I don't think that the option would be a good thing in MP, as that will lead to too much debate on whether to turn it on or off before a game starts. It is a (now documented) game mechanic, ans as such is a integral part of the game. If you don't like it, don't play.

DeepO

[Adagio]

I don't like it being an option, since at every start of a MP game, you'll have a long debate if it should be turned on or off...and I don't like that debate...

The culture flip formular should just be changed:

It shouldn't be about, how many foreign tiles you have there, it should only be about how big the city is (How many people hates you). Let's just say we have a size 5 city, where 4 of them hates you, then if you have 4 units in the city, there's about 50/50 change if the city flips or not. Though it doesn't just flip-over in one turn. Your units should just loose some hit points, or maybe you'll loose a unit or two (While you get the message there's a war going on in this city). The more units, the lesser change to lose a unit...

This would make it more real, since it makes more sence that 5 angry citicens kills one unit, than 1 angry citicen kills 7 units