conquastidors wrong place in ptw

[dovlvn]

as I understood from the chat the spanish will get their uu as a cavelry replacement. thats a bad idea because whichever way you make it it wont fit:
1 if he'll have like the screenshots show 5/2/2 he will be the only uu that is weaker than the regular unit.6/3/3. even a no resourse benefit wont conpensate for that especially when cavelry is the main world conquest unit in most games ive played or seen. the spanish will be as popular to play as an modern iraqi civ with saddam hussain as leader.
2.if he'll be stronger tham reg cavalry as some chats indicate it"ll create historically ludicrious situation. the 15 cen conquastidor will be stronger from 17cen cavalry
or the cossaks.no one will convince me that conqustidors were stronger (no more than panzer are stronger than mod armor
therefore I propose that conquastidors will come with the same stats 5/2/2 in the gunpowder advance together with musketmen. that will be more accurate historically will give real advantage to spanish (as they had in15 16 cen) but not too much to beat all and liven the games a bit before cavelry comes

[Coracle]

It's already "historically ludicrous"

"It'll create an historically ludicrous situation"??

Firaxis has already created numerous historically ludicrous situations in Civ 3.

In this case, Conquistadores should have ZERO relevance unless fighting barbarians on a new continent. They never fought regular military units of rival civs, such as France.

What we should have for Spain is the TERCIO: a very powerful amalgam of musketmen and pikemen together.
You should be able to take a musketman, a pikeman, add some gold, and then get two tercios.

If you don't know what a tercio is (I'm sure Soren doesn't) here's a link: http://www.geocities.com/ao1617/TercioUK.html

BTW, the unit values that came from Firaxis were ludicrous: not only too few units, but much too low values for post-gunpowder units due to the absurdly low resource appearance rates.

[kring]

It sounds like, in the CivFanatics chat Friday, that Cavalry would still be available to Spain, as part of their unique ability.

CFC Chat Link

Specifically this info:

[22:11] Does Conquistador replace Cavalry?
[22:12] ChrTh: Currently, though we're entertaining the idea of part of their unique ability is that they don't replace the unit they replace. Conquistadors are light cavalry, so it seems wierd to block regular cavalry. We'll see

[dovlvn]

Originally posted by kring
It sounds like, in the CivFanatics chat Friday, that Cavalry would still be available to Spain, as part of their unique ability.

CFC Chat Link

Specifically this info:

then having such a uu for spain is even more useless
the 10-20 sheilds less wouldn't be worth the effort of making then . please Firaxis no more musketeer like useless uu!

[Solver]

Yeah, most probably it will replace light cavalry, but I think Spanish will also have regular cavalry.

Though, when Conquistadors were there, Cavalry was no longer "light".

[SpencerH]

I tried to make the point about a spanish cavalry UU during the improptu chat but I dont think it was noticed. Maybe I'm wrong, but I cant think of any historical context for this use even as light cavalry. Tercio would have been better, but even a conquistador as an explorer with decent combat stats would have been OK.

[dovlvn]

Originally posted by SpencerH
I tried to make the point about a spanish cavalry UU during the improptu chat but I dont think it was noticed. Maybe I'm wrong, but I cant think of any historical context for this use even as light cavalry. Tercio would have been better, but even a conquistador as an explorer with decent combat stats would have been OK.

I agree I can see no use for this unit if it comes together with cavelry.too late to be worth building and too weak to be useful if i lose saltpaper.I'll build one just for the graphics. I'll say it again please firaxis not another useless UU

[Gangerolf]

could it be possible that it replaces knights, not cavalry?

[Coracle]

Conquistadores if used as a UU would only show that Firaxis knows less than I thought about history.

Conquistadores were a bunch of gold-hungry adventurers and thugs, although most had mercenary experience. They NEVER fought - or were intended to fight - regular military units of other civilizations. Nor did they ever exist in large numbers.

The UU should be the tercio.

Of course Firaxis wants to keep the game painfully simplistic. Too bad.

[Darkworld Ark]

Originally posted by Coracle
Conquistadores if used as a UU would only show that Firaxis knows less than I thought about history.

Conquistadores were a bunch of gold-hungry adventurers and thugs, although most had mercenary experience. They NEVER fought - or were intended to fight - regular military units of other civilizations. Nor did they ever exist in large numbers.

The UU should be the tercio.

Of course Firaxis wants to keep the game painfully simplistic. Too bad.

I don't think Firaxis is trying to be historicly correct with their Civ games, I mean, you can take over the world with Aztec Tanks!

Anyways, I think Firaxis is trying to go for more 'known' UUs. Before everybody started complaining about how conquisadors should be tercios, I never heard of a tercio. Granted I'm really not intirested in Spanish history, but most people who play video games aren't either, & that's who Firaxis is aiming for.

[Ninot]

you try and balance a game while keeping it both realistic, historic, and fun.

[SomeOneElse]

Originally posted by Ninot
you try and balance a game while keeping it both realistic, historic, and fun.

and that's a hard balance. they're not stupid. in fact, its very smart to use a recognizable name for a uu. more sales. those with the time to know what a tercio is also have time to edit one in when ptw comes out

[Reptilicus]

It still reinforces bad history and plays on the ignorance of people.

[kring]

How about hyping the use of the dogs against the First Nationers (Native Americans), that was in the video clip, as well as some of their other promotional stuff.

[Coracle]

Originally posted by Reptilicus
It still reinforces bad history and plays on the ignorance of people.

And there is enough of that in society and our lousy public schools these days. Just watch Leno's Jaywalking segments.