New Government Types

[Dinner]

Simply put the choices are far to limited. Even if I mod in a new government type I must first delete one of the existing types. If more government slots were added then everyone would be happy modder and nonmodder alike.

[Duddha]

"Simply put the choices are far to limited. Even if I mod in a new government type I must first delete one of the existing types. If more government slots were added then everyone would be happy modder and nonmodder alike."
-Oerdin

Really, I don't have too. I've added something like 13 new governments in my own mod and the game runs smoothly.

[Indignator]

You want a better system, right?

You want it more realistic, right?

Then get it right!

No, I really don't care about realism. And no need to get mad - though it's my fault, I shouldn't have been so defensive.

[Dinner]

hmmm, wow. I didn't know that could be done. The only mod I saw was one which replaced Communism with Facism. It's good to hear we can add government types that why there's still hope even if Firaxis drops the ball.

[Mikhail]

Yay, I get to defend my theory. Lucky me.

Originally posted by Bleyn

I do have a couple of questions though.

First, why would you say socialism would come early? I would see it as more of a late-game thing, being that it has a lot of relation in its origins to Communism, which is in a certain respect as much or more a matter of socio-economics than as a matter of government. I'm not really sure any society before the late 1700s could really be said to be socialist in nature, except maybe some of the smaller tribal societies of North America, Africa, Australia and Polynesia.

By early, I mean the end of the middle ages. Socialist theory became well known in the early 1800s of course, though the industrial age didn't start until the late 1800s. "after the late 1700s" as you say, is still the middle ages.

Remember, that this is just a Socialist society, not a Socialist government, which would be in the 'future age' since we haven't had one yet

Second, socially how would you classify some of the early cultures in history, like the Romans or Greeks? I'm not sure they really fit the four choices you have, and suspect there may be a fifth choice you're missing, and just can't think of what it would be called myself at the moment.

Neither can I. but a 5th society structure would be a good addition.

Historically, you could consider Rome a lot of things. Capitalist. Fascist a little bit. And on the government side, an 'in-between' of Republic and Monarchy. There's really no 'set' combination for them. Just as there's no 'set' combination of Society and Government for the United States. Capitalist, a little bit Fascist (fascism wrapped in an American flag of course) , a little bit Socialist (welfare), and a little bit Fundamentalist (if anyone's been to/lives in the United States around the Holiday times, there's no denying such).


Imp Montezuma: Thanks for your imput.
A slave-ist society would actually be pretty interesting. Ability to sell (and buy, if the other civ is practicing slavery as well) workers that aren't garrisoned in cities.

Perhaps it could give access to a "Slaver" unit, that you can assign 'smuggling missions' to, and can conjure workers without taking away from one of your cities populations.

These 'conjured' workers would have no nationality, (i.e., how if you capture an enemy worker, it would say "Worker - Babylon", slaver conjured workers would appear as "Worker - Slave") and you could only trade workers gained this way to other Slave-ist societies.

combine this with quicker terrain improvements and lower 'worker support' costs, (forced labor, long hours, little food) you can have a really powerful society type, that most all players would use unless they specifically needed Fundamentalism's happiness bonus or something.

So what are the draw backs? Of course, i've already though of that while I was typing!

Once you engage in slave trade (or trade smuggling), you CANNOT change societies again untill you have gotten rid of your slaves (by having them join cities). Fundamentalism and Socialism could be skipped if the player didn't have a need for their respective bonuses, but when more advanced society types emerged, such as the economic-powerhouse society of Capitalism, or the war-time-powerhouse Fascist society, they'd need to get out of slavery fast.

Large wonder:

Emancipation Act

Sends Slavery societies to anarchy for X amount of turns, then sets them back to Fundamentalist untill they change. (since there are only 5 types of societies, that make up the way your citizens live their lives, changing them would take 2 or 3 times as long as a government revolution, I figure)

All slaves become barbarian class spearman/riflemen/whatever (depending on the point in the game)

Non-slavery societies, that still have foreign workers, simply have them join the nearest city, rather than the 'uprising' the slave-ists have happen.

Researcher of Emancipation Act get's a 'Free Worker/Refugee' bonus of 1/4

if there are 4 slavery societies, each with 5 slaves each, the EA researcher would get 5 free workers.

If there are 16 civs, and the EA researcher is the only one not practicing slavery, you can expect them to cover their empire with railroads shortly, all those immigrants. (hey, it happened to the US)

Big advantages, yes, but otherwise, you can bet there'd be people slave trading all game. And being politically correct WARRANTS big advantages.

I'm not sure Feudalism is really a society type though. More of a Monarchy-pseudo government. *shrugs*

And that would be the aforementioned "fifth society I can't think of" as well:

Fascist
Capitalist
Socialist
Fundamentalist
Slave-ist (slavist doesn't seem right. not all the slaves would be from Russia )

Imp Montezuma (yes, this is still replying to you ):

We can add governments on our own, if we need be. Dictatorship would probably be pretty easy to add. I'd rather not petition Firaxis for things we can make on our own. Rather, things that require coding into the game.

[Thrawn05]

I wouldn't mind a capitalist government, being that I'm a big builder and money whore.

[realn]

The UU of Theacracy

* Theacracy-ruled by priests.

Good Idea Oerdin. I think that an UU for Theacracy could be a Priest . Now it is just a defensive unit with a good 0-6-1. It is very expensive because its other ability will be happiness. You know how when you have a garrison unit inside a city it brings a little happy sign ( ), well the priest would bring more happy signs(about 3). Therefore a happiness creating unit. I was think that the expense was about 500 shields. It would have to be high right so that it doesn become a thing were there is two of them in each city. Only cities in need.

Now you will have to change the name of the leader then. Pope?

[Imp. Montezuma]

Re: The UU of Theacracy

For the Game purpouse (and may be for P.C. )only would like
Theocracy==Fundamentalism
Dictatorship==Fascism
Change Communism to Socialism with paid labor.

For Theocracy would like UU Monk (remember Tampliers, Maltians, Shaolin etc). Generally in addition for Civ Specific Units add Culture Specific Units (Knights for Europeans, Peltast for Mediterraneans etc) and Government Specific Units (For Despotism/Slavery - Slaver Unit, for Communism/Socialism - Commisars, For Dictatorship/Fascism - SS or Death Scadrons etc)

Aparently for Slavery idea. Slaver units take slaves from Goody Huts and Barbarian Camps. Mikhail, good idea for Hidden Nationality for they.

Slaves not exist with Democracy and Communism/Socialism. Slaves with Dem/Comm brings to proper nationality and becomes regular workers. Slaves is happy with Despotism/Slavery, is unhappy with other Govs. You can liberate slaves for money. Or trade 'speaking goods'. From Industrial era applies Internment Rule: after war captured enemy workers automatically return after 5-6 turns

[dunk]

Originally posted by Mikhail
There was a poll that came out several years ago, that had less than 10% of the US's population believing in evolution.

Um, what poll was this?

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Duddha
I doubt any new governments will be added in PTW because it could become controversial for govs like Fascism(damn PC) and because it's the simplest thing to change. Why bother if the people who want it will add it on their own anyways?

I don't think there is any reason not to include Facism. After all Stalin & Mao each killed as many people as Hitler yet Communism made it in.

Facism, like Communism, was a promonent political idealogy during the 20th century so it would be silly not to include it.

[dunk]

I think socialism should be in. There should be a communist-like government with money to rush rather than the whip.