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**Zoid** · June 10, 2002, 15:39

Originally posted by kring
The they I was referring to was First Nationers, not the Iroquios specificially. I have the game, still play it sometimes. They may still bring back the Sioux in another XP.

For those who don't know First Nationers are more commonly called Indians, Native Americans, AmerInd, etc.

Sorry

I thought you were referring to the Iroquios...

**monkspider** · June 10, 2002, 15:45

I don't want to start a huge Iroqouis debate, but the First Nationers are too large and unique of a group to not include in Civ. Preferably at a high prioritiy IMHO.

**Spiffor** · June 10, 2002, 16:05

Kring :
Sure, Korea is probably only at 75% probability, but it's the only Civ for which we have material to speculate upon. Everything we can say about the Inca or the Hebrews is pure speculation, as absolutely nothing confirms or deny their presence. But OTOH, we have the Hwacha pic, with its specific Korean name.
Do you know any material which gives indication the Inca / Hebrews, whatever micht be in ?

(sorry if I sound rough, but I've seen someone taking it for certain the Inca will be in. His proof ? "Firaxis wouldn't be stupid enough not to give another American Civ"

)

**ranskaldan** · June 10, 2002, 16:23

It's a pity if Inca doesn't get in.

**Panag** · June 10, 2002, 16:28

Originally posted by Spiffor
Kring :
Sure, Korea is probably only at 75% probability, but it's the only Civ for which we have material to speculate upon. Everything we can say about the Inca or the Hebrews is pure speculation, as absolutely nothing confirms or deny their presence. But OTOH, we have the Hwacha pic, with its specific Korean name.
Do you know any material which gives indication the Inca / Hebrews, whatever micht be in ?

(sorry if I sound rough, but I've seen someone taking it for certain the Inca will be in. His proof ? "Firaxis wouldn't be stupid enough not to give another American Civ"

)

hi ,

the "hwacha" could be from the japanese scenario they are putting in .

as for the Hebrews , one of the problems the have is the name , Israel' , or Jews , and guys dont make this in an off-topic now because of the above , thanks in advance

its a pitty they did not put the Inca in , even if it was to fill the worldmap , more exact South America , ...

have a nice day

**Spiffor** · June 10, 2002, 17:03

Panag :
Sure, it's not sure the Hwacha is the Korean UU, and thus it's not sure Korea is in. What I meant in my previous post is that we have a bit of information for Korea, but we have nothing at all for other Civs...
There is only one thing which supports the idea that Incas or Hebrews might be in. It's pure speculation and the desire to see them included.
What supports the Korea thesis is a possibly unrelated picture and unclear statement by Firaxians. It's not enough to be sure Korea might be in, but these are clues. Other Civs didn't give any clues.

**Panag** · June 10, 2002, 17:21

Originally posted by Spiffor
Panag :
Sure, it's not sure the Hwacha is the Korean UU, and thus it's not sure Korea is in. What I meant in my previous post is that we have a bit of information for Korea, but we have nothing at all for other Civs...
There is only one thing which supports the idea that Incas or Hebrews might be in. It's pure speculation and the desire to see them included.
What supports the Korea thesis is a possibly unrelated picture and unclear statement by Firaxians. It's not enough to be sure Korea might be in, but these are clues. Other Civs didn't give any clues.

hi ,

True , and maybe they are going to realease something totally different , ........

the only thing we can do is keep our fingers crossed

have a nice day

**dexters** · June 10, 2002, 20:21

Korea has at one time or another been considered a vassal or either China or Japan. Most Chinese view Korea as a sattelite state, and Korea is a distinctive iteration of the Chinese culture.

No offense to Koreans, but it Korea makes it into PTW, it won't be on its merit as a civilization, its nothing but pandering by Firaxis to Korean gamers in an attempt to sell more units in PC gaming hungry Korea.

**ranskaldan** · June 10, 2002, 22:22

Well, I'm Chinese, and that's not exactly how I view the Korean civilization.

In fact, you could argue that Korean, Japanese, and all Oriental culture stem from Chinese civilization, in the same way that all of European civilization derives from the Greco-Roman civilization.

But that is of course an oversimplification, and anyway, we aren't about to take the Japanese, French or British out of the game anyway.

Unless you want to argue that the only reason the French or Japanese civilizations are in is to please the French or Japanese, I don't see why the Koreans shouldn't be in due to their merits as a civilization.

**kring** · June 11, 2002, 11:46

Originally posted by panag

hi ,

the "hwacha" could be from the japanese scenario they are putting in .

20:55:13 [monkspider] Firaxis: Can you comment whether or not the Hwacha unit featured in several screenshots is part of the feudal japan theme pack?

20:55:23 [JeffreyMorrisFIRAXIS] Monk: It is not.

This from the chat the other day.

**kring** · June 11, 2002, 11:50

Originally posted by Spiffor
Kring :
Sure, Korea is probably only at 75% probability, but it's the only Civ for which we have material to speculate upon. Everything we can say about the Inca or the Hebrews is pure speculation, as absolutely nothing confirms or deny their presence. But OTOH, we have the Hwacha pic, with its specific Korean name.
Do you know any material which gives indication the Inca / Hebrews, whatever micht be in ?

(sorry if I sound rough, but I've seen someone taking it for certain the Inca will be in. His proof ? "Firaxis wouldn't be stupid enough not to give another American Civ"

)

You didn't sound rough.

I don't have any indication as to the last 2 civs will be, and if I did get it, I would be unable to share it until it was approved from above. As it stands now, I don't know nor do I care to guess. There are a number of logical reasons where the Hwacha is in, but the Koreans wouldn't have to be. Until I know more, I am not going to say yes they are in. At the same time, a person could make several arguments for them being in. Wait and see, I must.

**Veracitas** · June 11, 2002, 14:17

Originally posted by dexters
Korea has at one time or another been considered a vassal or either China or Japan. Most Chinese view Korea as a sattelite state, and Korea is a distinctive iteration of the Chinese culture.

No offense to Koreans, but it Korea makes it into PTW, it won't be on its merit as a civilization, its nothing but pandering by Firaxis to Korean gamers in an attempt to sell more units in PC gaming hungry Korea.

I agree wholly with ranskaldan. "No offense"? I'm sorry, but that was really offensive. Aren't you offended everytime an American claims that Canada is a US sattelite state with no distinct culture? I've heard the term "Canada is the US's biotch" many, many times. All my Canadian friends vehemently object, of course.

Of course, few here realize that Canada is actually one of the wealthiest nations in the world. According to THE WORLD BANK, Canada actually has the 8th largest economy. But, if you look a few spaces down, tiny South Korea actually holds the number 12 spot (it was number 11 before the IMF crisis). Pretty good for a country that you claim doesn't have merits as a civilization, eh?

Like many who were raised with a Western historical perspective, you seem to have little clue what Korea's past really was like. All you see are the periods of Chinese suzerainty, Japanese imperialization, the miseries of the Korean War, and US economic domination.

Even during these times, Korean history is fascinating, but there's much more, too, that you don't see--during these times and others.

**Panag** · June 11, 2002, 14:24

Originally posted by kring

20:55:13 [monkspider] Firaxis: Can you comment whether or not the Hwacha unit featured in several screenshots is part of the feudal japan theme pack?

20:55:23 [JeffreyMorrisFIRAXIS] Monk: It is not.

This from the chat the other day.

hi ,

hang on , somewhere the made it look like it was , ...

well anyway , lets hope more and more units come in

however it would be very nice from firaxis , if they could give us some news , ......even if it was a little bit , ....

have a nice day

**Veracitas** · June 14, 2002, 02:47

out of curiosity, where IS this hwacha screenshot i've been hearing so much about?

**Spiffor** · June 14, 2002, 07:59

Veracitas :

Apolyton Civilization Site

http://apolyton.net/view.php?/civ3/images/ptwscreenshots/Hwacha-Portrait.jpg

It comes from the screenshot pack that was shipped by Infogrames in the E3. I can't find it anymore on the Infogrames site, though. It's called Hwacha directly in this pack.

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