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FIRAXIS: How To Fix The Ministers

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  • FIRAXIS: How To Fix The Ministers

    if you recall your foriegn minister from civ2 (and ignore the banana fettish) you will recall a great screen full of information.

    if you look at civ3's, you will notice a lack of basic information.

    here are my ideas on how to fix the foriegn minister.

    Forget the Web
    People may like to look at the pretty leader portraits before dealing with other civs (and again staring at them), but it really serves no purpose. Using the small [D] button on the right side of the screen pops up a list of all the civs and their treaty status with you. i'd also like to see the attitude of the civ there.

    Bring Back The Intelligence Screen
    You should also be able to right-click on any of the civs in that list and bring up an "intelligence screen" ala civ2. you should be able to see all the techs the civ has, what they're researching, a list of their cities, everything civ2 had. of course you'd need an embassy for that, and the spy network could somehow enhanse that. You shouldn't have to go into diplomacy to find out what techs / how much $$ someone has. this will be KEY in MP, because warring civs may not talk to you, and you might want to keep tabs on them.

    Find the Original Civ 2 Foriegn Advisor with a Bananna that says "KruX" on it
    Hey, i needed a little humor somewhere in here, didn't i?

    moving on to the Military Advisor.

    Make it determine the Technological Strength of armies
    this topic has been ranted about for months. the SIZE of the military doesnt matter if my opponent has 5 spearmen to every tank i have (unless the opponent is a cheating AI, of course). Every unit should have some sort of point value associated with it, for example, warriors are worth 1, and Panzers are worth 40, or something. hat way 1 panzer is equal to 40 warriors in terms of determing hwo powerful your military is. this could also be useful in AI decision making.

    Bring back the casuality List
    (from an older thread, posted by me)
    IMHO, you could make it so it's groupd by location on a given turn.

    example: the battle fought in 200 AD near Rome

    click that and it lists all the units that fought an enemy unit near rome on that turn.

    things it could include would be an icon of each unit (firaxis loves it's graphics), rankings (elite etc) any promotions given, the HP levels of both, and of course the victor.

    now on to the Domestic Advisor, or rather, Domestic NAG

    Sorting by the "Producing" Column
    i'll never understand why Firaxis chose nto to allow this, but when you go into the domestic advisor screen you can sort by everything about a city except what it's producing. simply put, allow it.

    SMAC-esque "Summary" Box
    I'm not sure what it's official name was, but in SMAC there was a little box that had all the messages (civil disorder, etc) incase you missed them. i miss a lot fo messages in civ, and if i'm playing MP i'll probably be watching tv / doing other things when it's not my turn. i KNOW i'll miss more. this box is KEY.

    i have no other problems with her i'm sure someone else can find a few.

    next, the Trade Advisor.

    Foriegn Trades
    i'm not sure wether this should go in the foriegn minister stuff or here, so i just put it here for no reason. You should be able to pick a civ and see all of their exports. I want to know if the Romans are selling my enemies oil. It would greatly effect world diplomacy. Yuo would need an embassy to view this, of course.

    More Useful "Advice"
    Let's fact it Firaxis, the "Advice" she spits out is utter bullplop. "We should Acquire More Resource Luxuries", thank you ms. obvious. Useful advice would be "There are silks near Leipzig, build a road network there", or, "The Romans might undersell the Egyptians for the Rubber you're buying". The latter would have to be determined by varying conditions of which i am unsure of. What makes the AI sell you goods for less? attitude? suitation in the game?

    Use the Box Mentioned In the Domestic Nag Stuff
    When the Romans acquire a source of Uranium within their borders, i want to know about it, and that box could be very helpful. Infact, as it stands now, you dont even know what goods a civ has unless you see their map, or have a surplus of a good they dont have. Also, the box could be used for rades of resources (ie, "The Romans Now Import Oil from the Greeks), combing this suggestion with the previous ones.

    ah, the Cultural Advisor.

    Assimilation Warning
    every city should have 2 bars, the current one (culture build up) and a new one, "Risk of Revolting". It would have to be determined by a bunch of factors, namely according to the bordering civ. The total cultures of both civs would have to be compared, the cultures of bordering cities, the whole thing. You guys are the pros here, think up an algorithm.

    Sorting
    for some reason you cannot sort the list in the Cultural Advisor as in the Domestic Advisor. It would be nice if you could alphabetize the list, at least. It appears to just list the cities in the order of their founding, and with conquered civs, it gets confusing when you see London, Rome, Athens, Berlin... in no particular order.

    Finally, the Science Advisor.

    Make it LEARN, and build on that
    i know this is a lot to ask, but i really have no problems with the current system. I'd rather you make the AI learn (my tactis and whatnot, to be a mroe efficient fighting machine), but the Science Advisor could employ similiar tactics. It could look at the current suitation from the other advisors, and base some advice that people could use. for example "we have a lot of size 12 cities, perhaps we should go for Sanitation", or "our people are unhappy, dive for Theology", or something to that effect.

    i really have no problems as it stands now.

    i hope you read this Firaxis, and take it as suggestions, not whining. This community is very supportive of your efforts, despite the whiners (myself included). We admire the way you listen to your customers.

    good luck and thank you for reading.

    PS: in 4 years i'll be out of college and lookign for a job. maybe then instead of telling you how to do your job, i'll be doing it myself
    Last edited by Inverse Icarus; May 29, 2002, 23:29.
    "I've lived too long with pain. I won't know who I am without it. We have to leave this place, I am almost happy here."
    - Ender, from Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card

  • #2
    A few comments, but overall

    How about creating a matrix instead of a web. For instance, when the "China" column is crossed with the "Russia" row, a red square would indicate that the two civs were at war, blue would be peace, green MPP, yellow... you get the idea.

    A matrix would also have the capability of being expandable. So if some psycho (like me) wanted to play with 32 civs, there would just be 31 rows by 31 columns (crossed with self is not necessary).

    The intelligence screen must return.

    Why doesn't the intelligence or espionage screen show up when I right click on the leader head? I've seen the 'pedia show up too many times. It would be logical to enter into espionage from the *foreign advisor* screen...

    Also, how about a little number that states the EMPIRE's culture per turn? Basically, how long do I have before victory (should I start building nukes ).
    They're coming to take me away, ha ha...

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    • #3
      This all sounds pretty good, but the stuff about making the AI learn may be bit much.
      Last edited by GeneralTacticus; May 30, 2002, 03:33.

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      • #4
        A useful contribution, Krux. You might prove to be of some limited value to mankind yet!

        Except for the AI learning pipe-dream and that Krux joke, these are all solid ideas that would streamline game play no end. The so called advisors are all but useless as is.
        "The number of political murders was a little under one million (800,000 - 900,000)." - chegitz guevara on the history of the USSR.
        "I think the real figures probably are about a million or less." - David Irving on the number of Holocaust victims.

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        • #5
          Wow, Krux you really hit the nail on the head with these ones. Unlike a lot of the suggestions that suggest radically altering gameplay, these all seem to be about streamlining (and in some case enabling) the steps you need to do to make good decisions.
          Seemingly Benign
          Download Watercolor Terrain - New Conquests Watercolor Terrain

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          • #6
            Fingers crossed that Firaxis actually listen to the ideas put forth. They've made the most sense of anything I've seen posted on these forums.
            "Corporation, n, An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." -- Ambrose Bierce
            "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." -- Benjamin Franklin
            "Yes, we did produce a near-perfect republic. But will they keep it? Or will they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom? Material abundance without character is the path of destruction." -- Thomas Jefferson

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            • #7
              Yes, I agree a CTP-like relations table would be nice.

              I think military strength is somewhat related to units, because I've had the foreign advisor say our armies were the same size but the military advisor say theirs is stronger.

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm a diehard partisan of the Intelligence screen. I still cannot understand why they didn't put it in : with it, you have in one screen all the info you need to find in 5-6 screens otherwise.
                Including the Intelligence screen would be in the general direction of a more user-friendly interface.

                That's why I doubt there will ever be a matrix for diplomatic relations, it would be uneasy to read.
                "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

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                • #9
                  Most of the SSG games (Warlords, etc.) used the matrix, and while it wasn't always pretty, it was very easy to interpret.
                  Seemingly Benign
                  Download Watercolor Terrain - New Conquests Watercolor Terrain

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                  • #10
                    been a while since i got positive replies, eh?

                    i swear, prior to civ3's release, i was like this all the time... to a search and look at my older posts, they're so *positive*

                    i honestly thought MP was comming out of box back then...

                    anyway, i hoppe Firaxis listens to me some more.
                    "I've lived too long with pain. I won't know who I am without it. We have to leave this place, I am almost happy here."
                    - Ender, from Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Also please fix the mini map in the cultural advisor screen. We should be able to click on a city light and have that city selected in the list. It takes way, way to long to scroll to find the values of a city.

                      An alternative would be to put the each turn culture value in the city inspection screen.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: FIRAXIS: How To Fix The Ministers

                        Originally posted by UberKruX
                        Bring Back The Intelligence Screen
                        You should also be able to right-click on any of the civs in that list and bring up an "intelligence screen" ala civ2.
                        Refreshingly excellent post, Uber. Might I add that bringing back the intelligence screen and tying the amount of information available on it to establishing an embassy or more importantly having a spy would actually add value to the whole sorely lacking espionage component of the game. They could even add some additional espionage missions that would fill in sections of the screen; I'd pay gold for that (as opposed to "Ferret out enemy spy" or whatever). Then I might bother with the Intelligence Agency.
                        "Stuie has the right idea" - Japher
                        "I trust Stuie and all involved." - SlowwHand
                        "Stuie is right...." - Guynemer

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                        • #13
                          Wow, UberKruX,

                          I'm positively surprised. Please share more of your good ideas with us!

                          Some additions:

                          military advisor screen
                          - When viewed by city, enable the right-click on the unit to upgrade, disband, fortify, etc.
                          - Put in an "upgrade all" option at that screen, so that I don't have to leave the screen for doing that.

                          foreign advisor / trade screen and trade advisor
                          - Display the current trades/agreements/treaties and how many turns they will last
                          - On the trade advisor screen, when clicking on a civ, proceeding to the foreign advisor screen and closing the foreign advisor screen, then go back to where you came from (which is trade advisor screen) not to the game map.

                          wonders of the world screen
                          - For wonders under construction display the start date of the construction.

                          histograph
                          - When selecting power or culture from the drop down, show the corresponding ranking on the right hand side.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Forgot one:
                            When starting negotiations with a civ, let me scroll through the possible answers with the arrow keys, I hate to have to use the mouse.
                            Keyboard usage can be enhanced in general, e.g select the different items on advisor screens by using the tab key.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              You know, ever since you got that new Homer Avatar Uber, you've been makeing EXCELLENT POSTS.


                              I'm in full support of your suggestions.
                              I drink to one other, and may that other be he, to drink to another, and may that other be me!

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