Similiar Civs?

[dunk]

Re: Similiar Civs?

Originally posted by UberKruX
maybe it's just me, but when i hear the word "Gauls" i think Charlemange, and i think France.

what exactly is the difference betwen the Gauls and the French, territory wise?

There isn't a territory difference.

The Gauls are of Celtic decent while the present-day residents of France (descended from the Franks) are more Germanic. Charlemagne was German, I beleive.

[Spiffor]

Mikhail :
Is there an "Indonesian" identity which roots back before the Indonesian independance ?
Don't get me wrong : I'm sure people here have a specific culture which qualifies them to be Civilizations, and I hope they'll include a SE Asian Civ over the Gauls. But I mean : is there an "Indonesian" Civ, or a "Javanese/Timorese etc." Civ ?

Dunk999 :
France is a mix of several populations : Gauls, Romans, Franks etc. It was said that people coming from the Franks formed the nobility (so I believe the Germanic people in France are in very small minority). French culture is mostly Latin : language, religion (catholicism), alphabet etc.

[KaiserIsak]

Spiffor--> Most countries are a mix like this.

I would add the khmers if i were to add anyone. I will not write to much about them because i dont kno to much, but they controlled much of south east asia for centuries (much more then today) and their buildings (angor ++) is far more impressive then both koreans and thais. Tibet would also be fun, but would be my second choice.

I will support spicytimothy a little bit. I agree that all the thing that were mentioned in that post is irrelevant. I could say that Norway is number one on the HDI ranks and therefore should be in. But thats just plain idiotic. I could also say that Cuba have the best health welfare in the world (they do have), and therefore should be in. But again....whats the point?
This is a big scale game, if you want to play korea, go play europa universali II (a great game by the way), but in civ only the best of the best should be in.

Historicaly, indonesia have no cultural identity. They are a union of many cultures which had very little with each other to do (trade is an exception offcourse) before the europeans came.

And what have the hebrews done? Created an very very little empire for a few hundred years, and then being constantly occupied for 2000 years++++++++ ( i dont want to make a wild guess, but it is much). The hyksos is better from that territory (they conquered egypt at the time egypt was at its peak).
offcourse they writed some stories down. But that was not before they came to the religious and cultural centre of the region, babylonia.

[Panag]

Originally posted by KaiserIsak

And what have the hebrews done? Created an very very little empire for a few hundred years, and then being constantly occupied for 2000 years++++++++ ( i dont want to make a wild guess, but it is much).

hi ,

how about the fact that they are the only civ in the world that still has its language after 5700 years , ............

not to mention the trade system they brought to the world , the concept of using a cheque , ingraved on a stone (!) or skin , .....
the whole banking industry in the older ages , ......

there are many , many things they have given to the world , ....to many to put here , ............

the name should be the Jews , ....

have a nice day

[KaiserIsak]

Right Panang, but the lydians invented the money, one of the most important things for the world history, would you include them???????

[Panag]

Originally posted by KaiserIsak
Right Panang, but the lydians invented the money, one of the most important things for the world history, would you include them???????

hi ,

nope the Indians did not , .......
at the start there where many small nations , today , we call them India , ....

have a nice day

[yin26]

The Chinese invented the first printing press but what Guttenburg did invint was the first use of movable type.

Wrong:

The Chinese had woodblock printing, which meant new blocks had to be carved for each new page you wanted to print, and the blocks were open to termite attacks and such.

The Koreans, who were expert metal casters, invented the world's first moveable metal type printing press, 200 years before Guttenburg. Guttenburg simply improved on the model that he had heard about from Asia.

These are simple facts.

[yin26]

http://www.korea.net/kwnews/pub_focus/content.asp?cate=05&serial_no=2269

December 21, 2001
Korean Information Service

The U.S. Library of Congress, which is the best authority on matters of publication and printing, carried an advertisement in the Washington Post, strongly advising American schools to rectify the widely known but incorrect fact that "Johannes Gutenberg revolutionized civilization by inventing movable type (in 1455)."

The advisory, carried in the newspaper's December 20 edition, informed the public that movable metal printing was used in Korea as early as 1234, predating the Gutenberg printing press by more than 200 years.

The fact that Korea developed the world's first metal printing typeface is well known in Korea, but the fact has not been widely circulated outside the country; Johannes Gutenberg is therefore generally erroneously credited with having invented the first printing press in other parts of the world, including by American grade school teachers.

The advertisement says in part: "From grade school on, we all learned that in 1455 Johannes Gutenberg changed the world. What many of us remember, though, isn't exactly correct. Gutenberg may have invented the first printing press, but he wasn't the first to use interchangeable type or even the first to make type out of metal. That distinction goes to Asia."

The advertisement mentions that the feat was even more interesting because Koreans didn't even have a complete alphabet and appropriated the characters they needed from the Chinese.

The advertisement was carried to publicize the library's exhibition titled ¡°World Treasures of the Library of Congress: Beginnings." The library described it as an exhibition featuring "the library's collection, rarely displayed, that helped people share their experiences and preserve them for future generations." On display, along with the Korean type, are the first book printed in the Western Hemisphere, Galileo's maps of the moon, an Egyptian zodiac chart and much more.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by yin26


Wrong:

The Chinese had woodblock printing, which meant new blocks had to be carved for each new page you wanted to print, and the blocks were open to termite attacks and such.

The Koreans, who were expert metal casters, invented the world's first moveable metal type printing press, 200 years before Guttenburg. Guttenburg simply improved on the model that he has heard about from Asia.

These are simple facts.

I didn't even know you were alive anymore.

[yin26]

Hey, I was just in San Antonio last week on business. I enjoyed the Riverwalk and the Alamo. The rest of the time I was locked in various conference halls pretending to pay attention.

Well, that's it. No need for me to post for a good long while again.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by yin26
Hey, I was just in San Antonio last week on business. I enjoyed the Riverwalk and the Alamo. The rest of the time I was locked in various coference halls pretending to pay attention.

Well, that's it. No need for me to post for a good long while again.

Well, come back anytime!

Oh, and I disagree with you on EU2, By the way.

[spicytimothy]

Originally posted by KaiserIsak
Right Panang, but the lydians invented the money, one of the most important things for the world history, would you include them???????

Who are the lydians???

spicytimothy

[spicytimothy]

Just a message for Yin: Great Job.

Now I finally understand what's the argument based on about the printing press invention. So the Chinese did invent the first printing press, but the Koreans invented the first MOVABLE TYPEPLATE printing press.

Thank you for clearing up the confusion while polite and offer solid support.

spicytimothy

[Boney]

Lydians, The.

An Aryan people who passed from the Balkans, probably sailing over the Black Sea, to Asia Minor about 1000 B.C. and settled inland from the Ionian coast. They are interesting for two reasons. They created a very prosperous and attractive civilization - their King Croesus is still a symbol of wealth - by the seventh century B.C. - another instance of the educability of the Aryan "barbarians." The more interesting point is that, borrowing and humanizing the Hittite cult of Ma (the Earth Mother), they developed the corollary of the brotherhood of man more than any other ancient nation. Their life was one of gaiety and pleasure, and "Friend of All" was the most coveted epitaph for a man's tombstone. Through the Ionic cities, and then the Stoics and Epicureans, they had a most important influence on the evolving ethic of the race. With them began the "colleges" or trade unions of workers. The best work on this greatly underrated civilization is Radek's La Lydie et le monde grec (1892), but there is much appreciation in Sir W. Ramsay's Asianic [sic-RW] Elements in Greek Civilization (1927).

[Veracitas]

Originally posted by spicytimothy


wooo... hang on!!!! First off, I'm an Asian myself. I grow up in Hong Kong and lived there for 15 years, the Los Angeles under my name shows my location...

and pls, don't pick on my language... English is my Ssecond language... i'm sorry that i hv difficulty using it... but ouch... that really hurts...



ok here, maybe i misunderstood u, but in the original post u said Korea is the 13th largest country or sth. U did not mention largest GDP. it's 2 very differnt things. there's a distinct difference when i say Hong Kong is the 8th largest country and the 8th largest GDP of a country/region. (which is true)



When i talked about the airports and Samsung and stuff, i really mean that. I think there's a difference btw economic achievements and culture. a Large Airport and big companies DOES NOT represent great CULTURE.



It's very unfair to focus only on South Korea when it's favorable to an argument while the topic of concern is the whole Korean culture... it's like... o China has very high GDP, coz Hong Kong has a high GDP, and HK is a Special Administrative Region of China... (sorry for the repeated use of Hong Kong as examples... it's a place i'm most familiar with)


North Koreans are starving for food, let alone education. U r a man of statistics urself... take a look at them... North Korea has a serious illiteracy problem. And again, I'm NOT a westerner! Stop assuming!



I did not say that North Korea has high illiteracy rate bcoz it's a communist country. My grandmother is from communist China and she speaks English.


now who's assuming??? still me??




This one i can't tackle. I don't understand what r u talking about. Sorry. My English is sometimes limited...



It is a translation. You can spell the same word differently in different languages. The fact that you say that the word is taken from Hanja makes it a Chinese word. It's taken from a Chinese root. I have never seen someone created something, and then use another country's language to name it, instead of something from their own language...



I am NOT a westerner..... sigh... My grandmother practice a form of Kung Fu herself when she was young, so I got some of the information from her... I don't know if u know this, but matial arts has a very long history in China, and over the long period of time, it evolved into many different verions, or as the Chinese call it "Mun Pai" (straight translation: door and clans) I'm not saying that the Koreans did not practice Tae Kown Doe or that they don't have vast accomplishment in this art, but it's not a Korean invention...




for this, again, as i apologize in respnse to another reply, I'm sorry. What I try to express is not that they don't hv an cultural identity or unique culture, i was just trying to say that the civ of Korea is not as worthy to b added in Civ3 XP as others...




This is an assumption on ur part and it's offensive. i have Koreans friends and nieghbors, and I DID NOT, ADSOLUTELY DID NOT, say that they are "Chinese wannabes" as u proclaimed. that's just a guess on ur part.



Did my post REALLY gave u such so so so so so negative feelings??? I am really not bitter towards to Koreans...



gosh darn it! This has gone too far! I'm an Asian myself and i wish there's someway i can prove this to u so u will not accuse me anymore. I'm a Hong Kong person, with family origins going back to Shanghai.



well on this note I'm far more fortuate than u for I hv been living in Asia for 15 years and I hv a lot more education and background on Asian culture than u. i hv studied Asian History in Hong Kong since 1st grade as part of the curriculum.


Veracitas, I really appreciate ur reply, and I apologize if my lack of ability to use the language fluently had comfused you. But with all due respect, you are the one who assumes all the way thru ur post. The reason I use words such as 'I believe' and 'I assume" is directly due to my native tongue of Cantonese. It is a courtesy to strangers or elderly to claim that u r not sure or u think something it's true even tho u know it's fact. and it's just my habit to do that in all other languages that I learned. i feel very misunderstood and misquoted that I hate Koreans and Asian culture in general when I am not.

I try my best to keep the tone of this reply corteous and well-natured, and I hope your reply will show that likewise, unlike the previous one.

spicytimothy

looking forward to ur reply/.

Well, Yin cleared up some stuff. One thing: Guttenberg is mistakenly credited with invention of the MOVABLE TYPE printing press, that's what the whole discussion was about. People had been printing using inefficient wood blocks for hundreds of years, even in Europe.

Oh, also, when I was referring to GDP, I was referring to total GDP, not per capita. Thus, the reason that China has such a high total GDP is because it is so FRIGGIN' LARGE. Korea, which has a much smaller population still holds the 12th position for total GDP.

Anyway, let's not continue a long, drawn-out argument like this, lest it turn into another Apolyton fight-for-Korea war.

I also apologize if I misread what you meant b/c you don't know the English language that well. I'm glad you still responded in a good-natured fashion. Ok, well, happy civ-ing.