What will the remaining 2 unknown civs be?

[KaiserIsak]

Actually there is alot more differences between the babylonians, the arabs, the turks, the egyptians and the persians then it is between almost all of europe. These five civs are from five completly different ethnic and language groups. The persians are more related to the british then to any of these (british and persians and most of europe is in the indo-european branch).
The arabs are in the semittic group with the hebrews. The babylonians are in the akkadian group with the assyrians. The egyptians are in the afro-asian group with some other north africans and the turks are more related to the mongol (actually the mongols counts under the turk group).
An both the russians, the french, the romans, the british, the greeks, the americans, the vikings, the spanish and the germans are togheter with the persians in the indo-european group.
Offcourse, this is only ethnic and language, and culture may be more different. The arabs and the turks are similar because they have the same religion, but thats where the similarities end.

[Lucilla]

I work in a Dutch company with maybe 60% foreigners from all over the world (myself included). A lot of my collaegues are from Australia. So far every one of them was overwhelmed by the cultural differences that we have on such a small continent like Europe (and that despite the fact that they are all very well educated and knew that before they came here).

Just visit London, Paris, Berlin, Vienna, Rome, Amsterdam, Stockholm, Madrid, etc., etc. (sorry, can't list them all) and you will not only get different languages but also completely different lifestyles, attitudes, opinions, social and political conflicts, and so on.

For the same reason I would never mix up Canadians with US, Indonesians with Malayans, Arabs and Turks, etc.

Europeans share in big parts a common history, but still have kept their characteristics over the centuries.

[Mikhail]

I'm jewish as well, but not hebrew.

skywalker: Yes, Byzantium was part of Roman culture in the beginning, but Byzantium was an economic and militaristic power house for over 1000 years after Rome fell. I think that's enough time for a culture to become it's own (look at the US). It was actually more influenced by Middle Eastern culture than European.

As for accomplishments, there's a thing called the Hagia Sophia, and Byzantium is more or less single-handedly responsible for spreading Christianity to it's now 1 billion followers. (the mongols, they killed a bunch of people, and held on to some land for a while)

Byzantium is one of the most important civilizations in the history of the world (i'd say almost as important as Rome itself), and definately the middle ages. Constantinople was the most populous city in the world even into the late industrial ages.

Anyway, I'd say it's a helluva lot more different from Rome than France is from Germany. Or even Great Britain is from America.

Confederacy? You mean the original 13 colonies' confederacy? Or the Second American Revolution one?

(actually, an American Revolution scenario would be very cool of firaxis to include, especially if it were on a world map, where Mother Russia and the like could interfere )

[monkspider]

mikhail, check out the "unlocking the secrets of the civ select screen" for new hope for the Hebrews inclusion

[Panag]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Turks with the Arabs. Yes, both are different from the Arabs. But are they any more different than Austria-Hungary is from Germany, or Canada from Britain?

They are as different as England is from Germany. Would you take out Germany because England and Germany are so similar?

hi ,

why not , .........;

now ; would it be possible to change the nations , ......and put a pic (face) on a nation that you want , .............

firaxis say's ; "no comment" , .........

have a nice day

[KaiserIsak]

Still, all of europe belongs to the indo-european group. And this is science, and its proved. They´re there along with persia.
Offcourse there are differences between us, i just dont think you can use the so-called similarity to reject all the middle-eastern civs.
The middle-east have in many ways been the centre of the world for most of its history, and naturally, this region have gotten influenced by so many parts that there have developed tons of different cultures on this small "continent". People have travelled here with so many different backgrounds. Both the persians and the babylonians are travellers that have expelled the older peoples (medes and sumerians). The turks come from the steppes of central asia, and are completly different.
Europe have been on the western side, with their back against the sea, and they are naturally more similar.

[KaiserIsak]

I would agree that the byzantines are more different from the romans then france is from germany, and even france is from the us.
But there is also great differences from modern china, china in ad800 and china in 200bc. I feel the byzantine culture is the culture that rome developed into. Like old china developed into new china.
And remember that we do already have greece as well.

[Mongoloid Cow]

Achievements:

Egypt - worlds first civilisation, powerhouse for millenia, first partly conquered by Hyksos, fought back, conquered, prospered, got conquered, kept own identity

China - kept own identity since the Han dynasty China and before, invented gunpowder, compasses, uniformed ingots, developed fancy and good looking writing

Greece - invented many social concepts such as democracy and the hippocratic oath, conquered by macedonia, fought back, settled far and wide, traded, made maps, stole alphabet which became base language for all european writing

Rome - conquered largest empire in ancient age, altered greek alphabet to be base of all west euro languages, invented social concepts, got conquered

Mongols - in reign of a few kings conquered china, middle east and russia to conquere largest empire EVER, survived in many dynasties for centuries

Arabs - invented numbers (them being 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 0), great astronomers, traders, scientists, conquerers, etc, etc

Hebrews - invented a book full of phrases and their contradictions on the same page WOW! WHAT AN ACHIEVEMENT

[Miznia]

KaiserIsak: Note that Semitic languages are also Afro-Asian This unites Arabs and Egyptians (and Hebrews and Babylonians) to some extent.

I don't want Hebrews because their land area was too small. How could I deal with the sight of Hebrew cities all over the mideast? Tel-Aviv thousands of miles from Jerusalem, or some such? ...It's the same reason I don't want Cubans or Irish or Scots in the game (CTP inclusions...).

Though I WOULD like Assyrians... More than Hebrews or Hyksos. I would make them very dark blue.

Miznia

[civman2000]

Never knew it was called afro-asian, but it is true that the arabs, babaylonians, and egyptians were/are also semitic

[kring]

I miss the other original Civs. The ones from the Board Game, by Avalon Hill. The basis for the computer games.

[Miznia]

What civs were those? Were they all mideastern?

[Mikhail]

Mongoloid Cow: Actually, I think the British empire while it was it's biggest was larger than the Mongol Empire. I remember reading something similar. I'll look it up.

Here we go:

1. The British Empire: 14,157,000 sq. miles

2. Mongol Empire: 12,800,000 sq. mi.

3. Soviet Union: 9,883,591 sq. mi. (NOTE: entire communist world was 13,889,000 million sq mi, the only reason I don't have them as #2 is to not give the opportunity for a "That was the Eastern Bloc too, not just the Western Bloc" whine)

(not going to give sq. mi. ratings for the rest. I hate copying out of books)

4. Spanish Colonial Empire
5. Russian Federation
6. Fascist Axis
7. The Caliphate
8. French Colonial Empire
9. Chinese Empire
10. Portuguese Colonial Empire
11. Dominion of Canada
12. United States of America
13. United States of Brazil
14. Australia
15. Empire of Persia
16. Seljuk Empire
17. Roman Empire
18. Ottoman Empire
19. Macedonian Empire
20. Timur's Empire
21. Mughal Empire
22. Selucid Empire
23. Argentine Empire
24. Republic of Kazakhstan
25. The Ghaznavid Empire

KaiserIsak: True, we DO have the Greeks, but the Byzantines are so much cooler The armies of Constantinople... Just wouldn't be the same if it were Ottoman controlled.

BTW, does anyone know what the Arab civ is based on? Mesopotamia perhaps?

[Miznia]

Mikhail, what do you mean? The Arabs "started" in the Arabian peninsula... Although if Baghdad is their capital, that's Mesopotamia, I'm pretty sure...

[Mongoloid Cow]

Thing is Mikhail no one is actually sure of how big the Mongol Empire was, although under Kublai Khan thy know they had China, Tibet, Korea, Siberia, Russia, Persia, Central Asia and a chunk of the middle east, so they expected the Mongols to be the largest, although the British might have been larger.

And I would expect the Arabs to have the capital at Mecca or Medina.