Genghis Khan Portrayal: Offensive or Not?

[siredgar]

Originally posted by Imp. Montezuma
http://www.mongoliatoday.com/

Thank you, Imp. Montezuman, for introducing this excellent Web site!

I can see that the Mongolian paintings have similarities with the ones seen in Korea and Japan. I am starting to think that the Western perception of the Mongol invaders is similar to the Yellow Peril fears. It is easy to portray a group of people as savages or part of a tide of human flooding when you fear it.

[siredgar]

The only portrait of Chinggis Khaan, according to Imp. Montezuma's Web site.

http://www.mongoliatoday.com/issue/2/true_face.html

"... a man of tall structure, of vigorous build, a robust body, the hair on his face scanty and white, with cat's eyes, possessed of great energy, discernment, genius and understanding, awe inspiring..."

[siredgar]

How that contrasts with the toothless chimp that millions will see...

[Spiffor]

Siredgar :
I'm perfectly calm while I wite this (and a bit drunk after a joyful evening ), and I ask you these questions :
Could you please quote the posts where there is such an "anger" you speak of ? Except Alexnm and likes saying "PC crap" or such thungs, I don't detect any anger here, exccept perhaps yours own.
Could you please pinpoint the facts that make Asian leaders less human than the others please ?

Again, I'm willing to listen to you, but you have to be concrete so that I can follow you. As long as you just say big abstractions, I can't think you make a point (contrary to Captain)

[siredgar]

Originally posted by Harlan
Siredgar,
In actual fact Ghenghis probably looked even uglier than in the picture.

The portait you point out is complete fiction.

Kublai probably looked very much like that, being very Chinese in his ways by the end of his life, but not so Ghengis.

Please show some evidence, instead of guessing with your "probably"s and whatnot. Can you show us an alternative picture?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by siredgar

Originally posted by notyoueither
I think you are projecting siredgar. I see a whole lot of discussion. You see anger and lashing out.

Which posters? Which posts?

Or are you just dumping a load of psycho-babel cr*p on people who do not agree with you?

Please calm down.

Are you trying to piss people off?

[siredgar]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Siredgar :
Could you please quote the posts where there is such an "anger" you speak of ? Except Alexnm and likes saying "PC crap" or such thungs, I don't detect any anger here, exccept perhaps yours own.
Could you please pinpoint the facts that make Asian leaders less human than the others please ?

I don't know what to say to this post when I have already shown you how I have been called "ignorant", "silly", and told to "drop the crap", among other things. I do not appreciate allusions to my being a "PC" fascist either. In fact, it is hard for me to imagine seeing angrier-sounding posts before.

As for pinpointing the chimp-like characteristics of the Genghis Khan portrait, please tell me that you don't find this beady-eyed, flat-nosed, toothless, and ugly picture of him comparable to that of Isabella:

[siredgar]

Are you trying to piss people off?

Apparently, I already have without even trying.

Feel free to start your tirade of profanities again.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by siredgar


Apparently, I already have without even trying.

Feel free to start your tirade of profanities again.

Yes, your histrionics are getting rather trying.

[siredgar]

Re: Re: Genghis Khan Portrayal: Offensive or Not?

Originally posted by Hohenzollern
well it appears you are bored or ignorant or both? No offense, but hell if you about to call Firaxis racist or intending to be, then you have already taken off your gloves.
When i first saw the pic i was like "WOW, and accurate pic of the man for once!" I was happy with the difference. Diversity is good, this isnt a game of placebos for people that love to complain.

Please feel free to demonstrate how it is "accurate" instead of just saying so based on your preconception.

[siredgar]

Originally posted by notyoueither




Yes, your histrionics are getting rather trying.

At least you have calmed down now.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by siredgar


At least you have calmed down now.

I'll let you guess where you can shove your psycho-babel.

[siredgar]

It's spelled "babble". Unless you are talking about that confused tower of old. Talk about confusion.

[Captain]

wrylachlan,
great questions. glad you are raising the level of the discussion. I'll try to get to your questions soon. you are definitely right that this is not a cut and dry case and I appreciate the way you're willing to think about it.

Spiffor, thanks for taking a civil tone. we may disagree, but I respect you for your approach here.
btw, thank you for the advice about trolls, I am trying to stifle the urge to respond everytime I'm baited. I think I've also made my positions fairly clear so I am trying not to repeat myself too much. still, I'm willing to continue the discussion.
oh, and your last post? two that come right off the top of my head are Hohenzollern, who does shout that he's angry, and Chaotikvisions who has the same tone.

chaotikvisions,
why do you insist on conflict? is it absolutely impossible for you to acknowledge that other people might actually find this offensive?
perhaps you don't care what others think, but I do. that's the whole purpose of discussion, to learn from others as well as to share your experience, not to win an argument or take somebody down. if you have no intention of listening to others, then it is you who should not bother coming to the forums. instead of insulting the thread starter and saying the complaint is invalid, why don't you just leave? you say we shouldn't bother to post this because you think the subject isn't important. if that is the case, why don't you leave the thread alone? go do whatever it is you deem more important. since you don't care, and we do, then depart and let us discuss this in peace without your belligerence. Firaxis is not going to evaporate simple because we raise a concern about the image of Genghis Khan, and no one has accused Firaxis of racism either. They don't need your defense.

btw: I really don't see why I have to be Asian in order to find the portrait offensive. I can find it offensive regardless, and if I was Asian and I didn't find it offensive, that would not make other people's opinions invalid either.
Now, if I said I was asian, I doubt you'd believe me anyways. you'd probably think I was just making it up to lend weight to my argument. I don't feel the need. If you feel the need, look up my past post history. probably somewhere between my 100th-200th post there will be a post indicating my heritage. since it was written long ago, I obviously did not make it up to "suit" the current circumstances. I post almost exclusively to civ3 general, some in creation, some in stories, and now some in ptw. you can find it somewhere there and settle it in your own mind.
otoh, your logical deduction does make sense. A game sold to a predominantly western market will have a majority of the dominant ethnocultural group. but we minorities do have the game too.

abjera, no I am not offended by anything you said in that particular post. I may not agree 100% with your conclusions, but you spoke reasonably and with respect to others.

Darkworld Ark, if I can get a working scanner, I will sketch a pic and show you what my version would look like. til then, I'm ok with Imp. Montezuma's.

Siredgar,
I'm behind you all the way.
As long as there are individuals such as alexnm, hohenzollern, chaotikvisions, et al making asinine remarks and trying to shout down and ridicule all those who disagree with them, I won't take my usual middle ground route of compromise. If they have no respect for you and having failed to reach some mutual agreement to disagree, then I have no respect for them.

all others... please be patient

[notyoueither]

siredar. You'd be the expert on it (babble). On this point I'll accept your opinion.