SO... we get to buy Civ III all over again, eh?

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by ADG
I know warez is illegal, but I'm no way going to pay tons of money for a game I hate withing hours of purchase. For reasons I never buy from online stores, and in Denmark (At least were I live) you can't get your money return if the game sux big time

That's an entirely irrelevant argument. Theft, piracy, and illegal activities are illegal irregardless of your justifications. You not wanting to pay for software that might suck is the same as a car thief not wanting to pay for cars that might suck.

[Adagio]

You do know you can test drive cars before you buy them, so your argument has nothing to do with software!!! And I don't care if people understands it or not, I'm just saying my oppinion!!!

But don't get me wrong, I'm not saying warez is only good!!!

[JtheJackal]

Thats what demos are for

[asleepathewheel]

You can download the game if you want to, but I think I at least would have doubts before playing a pirate in MP. Why? There is no way for a person to prove that he has integrity while he is largely anonymous on the internet. Would you want to play against someone with no integrity? I think not. If you pirate the game, you are stealing it, which is a knock against your integrity. Would I play someone that has stolen the game? No. If they stole the game, how will I know that they won't cheat at it as well. There's not much of a distinction in my eyes between lying and stealing, they're just different sides of the same coin.

About the downloading to test argument: You can rationalize this all you want, but its still illegal and to me, immoral. Its great to cheat the programmers etc, who have worked hard to put out a product. Have you ever worked for anything in your life? How would you like it if someone didn't pay you for the services rendered, he just said, "well, it was just a test drive" Then, the next week, you get fired because you didn't make any money for your company?

What I find really irritating is the fact that piraters hurt their fellow gamers. What would happen if half of the people who bought civ3 instead pirated it. Would there be a civ4? No. Same thing for the XP. If a large number merely download the xp instead of buying it, why would firaxis bother to put out another one, later down the road?

buy the xp or don't buy the xp, but don't rationalize low class thievery by claiming that Firaxis promised you everything in the initial release anyway. Stealing is still stealing, even if it is only for a limted time.

[/end dad-mode]
Have a nice day.

[MosesPresley]

Originally posted by MarkG

there are stores(EB for example i think) which have a return policy

EB has changed their return policy. They will only accept the game back for store credit or exchange for the same title. Store credit is OK, but the same game? Anyway they are trying to discourage returns as much as possible. I recently bought and returned Warrior Kings. The game was constantly freezing and randomly crashing. The gameplay sucked too. When I told the clerk about the game freezing, he started to go to the shelf to get me a new copy. I said the game freezes. He stared at me uncomprehendingly. I asked if I could get something different and he reluctlantly agreed. It appears that Warrior Kings hates Nvidia cards. PC Gamer in their recent review made note of this too.

This post is not intended to endorse warez or piracy. I just wanted to clarify EB's return policy, at least in Delaware.

[Swissy]

Originally posted by JtheJackal
Thats what demos are for

And we all paid $40US or more to get the Civ3 demo. Now we must pay $30US or more to get the complete game.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Swissy


And we all paid $40US or more to get the Civ3 demo. Now we must pay $30US or more to get the complete game.

This is such a tired argument. You don't have to pay the 30 dollars, just walk away from the game if you don't like it.

[Andrew_Jay]

If I may be the devil's advocate here; you can't bash on ADG for trying out a warez version of a game first and then buying it. Sure, warez are illegal and are made for an illegal purpose, however, ADG and many others have found a LEGAL use for them. What's wrong with trying out the full game and then buying it? You don't go into a store and buy a coat based on a "demo" of the coat where the clerk only lets you wear the sleeve, and sometimes it's okay to want to try the full game before buying. The important thing is that people unltimately do buy the game. Not saying everyone does, but some do, so you can't damn them for using a less then legal trial of a games before paying.
Then again, one could argue that downloads of warez games ultimately contribute to greater ripping/craking/etc.
Also, what if someone doesn't like the game after playing the full version for free? Though, it can be said at least they didn't have to waste their money on a crappy game.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Andrew_Jay
If I may be the devil's advocate here; you can't bash on ADG for trying out a warez version of a game first and then buying it. Sure, warez are illegal and are made for an illegal purpose, however, ADG and many others have found a LEGAL use for them. What's wrong with trying out the full game and then buying it? You don't go into a store and buy a coat based on a "demo" of the coat where the clerk only lets you wear the sleeve, and sometimes it's okay to want to try the full game before buying. The important thing is that people unltimately do buy the game. Not saying everyone does, but some do, so you can't damn them for using a less then legal trial of a games before paying.

Another analogy: I would argue that its more similar to those people who buy dresses (don't want to be sexist, i'm sure that some men do this too), take it home, put it on, fold in the tags, and then return it the next day. Isn't that more similar to the warez? Trying it out for a few days, getting your fun out of it (or lack thereof) and then not buyign it when you get bored with it? (or is this only a sitcom phenomenon?)

Originally posted by Andrew_Jay
Then again, one could argue that downloads of warez games ultimately contribute to greater ripping/craking/etc.
Also, what if someone doesn't like the game after playing the full version for free? Though, it can be said at least they didn't have to waste their money on a crappy game.

This is really my problem, the fact that most people probably don't go out and buy the game even if they do like it. Why go out and spend 70 bucks for something you already have on your harddrive? Awfully tempting, no one will know about it.

I wouldn't have a problem with the downloading to try out, if I actually thought people would go out and buy the game if it worked and was good. Perhaps this would even be a way to cut down on crappy games. Maybe I'm cynical here, but I just don't think people would do that. Some yes, all, no.

[MOHonor]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel


This is really my problem, the fact that most people probably don't go out and buy the game even if they do like it.

Well that's true but most warez kiddies would never buy the game to begin with. Not to support these criminals (any other laws you just feel like ignoring?) but most of them are under 18 and live with their parents. Their allowance from mowing the lawn is going to pokemon and pimped beer.

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by Andrew_Jay
Sure, warez are illegal and are made for an illegal purpose, however, ADG and many others have found a LEGAL use for them.

Okay, let's get one thing straight:

You can't put something illegal to "legal" use. If something is illegal, it is illegal. Case closed.

Any questions? There is no justification for warez.

[Capt Dizle]

cyclo, you are right on moral and ethical grounds...as an American I must say that you are on shaky practical ground. After all, do you think that the movers and shakers in this country got where they are legally?

Grow up pal.

[TechWins]

as an American I must say that you are on shaky practical ground. After all, do you think that the movers and shakers in this country got where they are legally?

So you're justifying piracy with other wrongful actions?

[Alexander's Horse]

Its all about funding Sid's fabulous lifestyle

[Tiberius]

Originally posted by cyclotron7

If something is illegal, it is illegal. Case closed.

So you wouldn't have drunk alkohol during the "prohibition" ?
I know I would.


PS I didn't intend to justify piracy. Piracy is theft.