Brazil as a great civ of the *future*

[Dom Pedro II]

I think Brazil should be included if there were 16 new civs, I'd say Brazil should be included. I've never said Brazil should definitely be one of the eight, but I certainly don't appreciate all of the Brazil-slamming going on.

[Grrr]

Brazil will fill the gap on the world map nicely, that is for sure.

[nationalist]

Originally posted by punkbass2000
"im not defending all of the united states actions for the last 225 years,"

100 good deeds does not justify a single evil act.

Be realistic. What utopia do you live in?

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Dom Pedro II
I think Brazil should be included if there were 16 new civs, I'd say Brazil should be included. I've never said Brazil should definitely be one of the eight, but I certainly don't appreciate all of the Brazil-slamming going on.

As opposed to the repeated USA bashing? I can live with USA bashing, why can't you do the same with Brazil? I don't pretend to know anything about Brazil. I am sure however that you know more about the USA than I do of Brazil.

And that should tell you something.

[Dom Pedro II]

Hey, my U.S. bashing was a retaliatory strike... I live in the f*ckin' United States of Hypocracy for god sakes! My friends lost family in the World Trade Center. I live five miles from Ground Zero. My father lost his job as a result of 9-11. I don't hate the United States (not its ideal), but I DO hate what it has BECOME. And frankly, if we had stayed in our own godd*mn hemisphere... 3,000 people would still be alive today.

[nationalist]

Originally posted by Dom Pedro II
frankly, if we had stayed in our own godd*mn hemisphere... 3,000 people would still be alive today.

We're not allowed to. Remeber last year, before Sept. 11th, when the U.S. was becoming somewhat more isolationists? The Europeans raised hell. The world loves our help, but hates our interferance. Somewhat of a double standard. I think the quote "If the United States stays out of foreign affairs, it is accused of being isolationist. If it gets involved, it is accused of being Imperialist" applies. I think that most Americans would love to stop getting involved with the rest of the world. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem as if that is possible.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by nationalist


We're not allowed to. Remeber last year, before Sept. 11th, when the U.S. was becoming somewhat more isolationists? The Europeans raised hell. The world loves our help, but hates our interferance. Somewhat of a double standard. I think the quote "If the United States stays out of foreign affairs, it is accused of being isolationist. If it gets involved, it is accused of being Imperialist" applies. I think that most Americans would love to stop getting involved with the rest of the world. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem as if that is possible.

Exactly.

However I don't see why Brazil shouldn't be in the game, it's.......big.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Dom Pedro II
And frankly, if we had stayed in our own godd*mn hemisphere... 3,000 people would still be alive today.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt until I saw this statement. I find this statement to be extremely insulting, both to myself and to those who lost their lives. The US govt didn't fly those planes.

With great power comes great responsibility, I heard that somewhere recently. and that is something that Brazil will never understand. It is far easier to be a third rate country, criticizing the US, when there is no chance of itself being put in the same situations.

Have a nice day.

I'm sure, when someone invades your country (for what reason, I have no idea) that the US will save your skins. See you then.

[Grrr]

Brazil has power over the future. So they should be included, a bit like Ethiopia.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Grrr
Brazil has power over the future. So they should be included, a bit like Ethiopia.

not after we napalm those rainforests

[Miznia]

Ethiopia has power over the future?!

I'm not sure I want to see Incas in Brazil.

3) If you think of Brazil as a 'future glorious Civilization', why not Argentina, Canada or Mexico?

Argentina and Mexico are Spanish off-shoots that will never compare with Spain's historical influence. Mexico's spot on the map is taken by the Aztecs, and it's possible to say that the Aztecs *become* Mexico. Canada and Argentina both have WAY too few people (both under 40mil I think). Finally, Canada is outshined by the U.S. in the region, not unique enough, and wouldn't fill a gaping hole like Brazil would.

Which is not to say that I necessarily think Brazil should be in the game...

[FrostyBoy]

You all have to remember that Firaxis don't see the World Map as the ONLY map.

[Alex]

I am sure however that you know more about the USA than I do of Brazil. And that should tell you something.

That we know geography and history better than you? Come on, this is a moot point.

I'm sure, when someone invades your country (for what reason, I have no idea) that the US will save your skins. See you then.

Don't forget to bring your sun-tan lotion with you.

As you said, there is no reason why someone would like to invade our country. Unless we are talking about rainforest and its richness... But you already have plans for that, don't you?

So, I could say we have a win-win situation here: we all agree that Brazil should not be seen as a civilization but that it would fill a spot on the map nicely. And we all agree that you are strong and valiant and that I can drink my caipirinha in peace.

Beware of our monkeys...

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Alexnm

Don't forget to bring your sun-tan lotion with you.

As you said, there is no reason why someone would like to invade our country. Unless we are talking about rainforest and its richness... But you already have plans for that, don't you?

Uh, no, no plans to invade, just to, uh, go to Carnival. uh.

Originally posted by Alexnm
So, I could say we have a win-win situation here: we all agree that Brazil should not be seen as a civilization but that it would fill a spot on the map nicely. And we all agree that you are strong and valiant and that I can drink my caipirinha in peace.

Beware of our monkeys...

I have no idea what a caipirinha is, so assuming it isn't portugese for "the blood of an American virgin" we can go in peace.

Monkeys- one reason to stay away.

[Weymaster]

And now presenting... Brazil vs. USA

Oh well... this has become a public debate about why/why not should Brazil and the States be included in Civ3... First of all the States are included for two main reasons: 1) The game has been programmed in the US, so it would be a stupid marketing choice not to include it, and 2) Like it or not, the States are the most powerful civilization around, so not including it would be to deny their success...

When talking about a great Brazilian civilization "into the future", then you should work on a Mod for Alpha Centauri. While Brazil is a very important force in the South American region, it is not for the rest of the world. Again, less "big and populated" countries have had more impact on the world than Brazil. An example? The little island-state of Cuba: They invaded Angola, almost triggered a Third World War, helped (with the cooperation of the US and Russia) to shape the politics and wars of Central America, their leader, Fidel Castro, has been in power against all American wishes, and finally, if Castro leaves the presidential seat someday, Cuba will be a very developed country because of their high education standards (there is a saying that in Cuba, even the prostitutes have a Masters degree)...

On the other hand... come on! All civilizations that have "endured the test of time" have relied on economic, diplomatic and mostly military means to achieve their success, and almost every time by subduing other nations! The Aztecs conquered most of Mexico to achieve an Empire (destroying and enslaving other civilizations, by the way); the French? Remember Napoleon; Germany? Hitler rings a bell?; How about China (Vietnam), or Rome? Isolationism is never the key to success in world politics... and Brazil is a very isolationist country.

Now, if you want a South American civilization, the best choice is the Inca Nation. Period.