The EC3X List

[korn469]

Here is the words that started it all (thanks Raingoon) and with the announcement yesterday it appears that the time for an expansion pack list has finally come!
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The Essential Civ 3

Last year Apolyton members produced The List, a 500 page document sent to Firaxis that included innumerable suggestions for Civ 3. By following a credo of "If Only One Idea..." that list was successful in getting at least some of its ideas into the game prototype at Firaxis, and perhaps more.

The problem, if there was one, is that 500 pages of ideas can't possibly be included in the game. Also, it doesn't give anybody a clear idea of what MOST fans think Civ 3 should look like. The Essential Civ 3 list will. The EC3 will reveal to Firaxis and fans alike what the majority of players believe are the ten most essential changes for Civ 3.

The EC3 is not intended to be just a list of ideas. It is a list intended to give a unified vision. Where The List told everything players want, the EC3 will clarify what players value. Something the designers can refer to as a guide when weighing the thousands of suggestions. And something to give the fans the confidence of knowing that, if nothing else, at least we showed 'em what we wanted.

The EC3 demands that each fan who participates ask themself the hard question, "What is the ONE THING I want to see in Civ 3?" By doing that, where the List was 500 pages, the EC3 will be ONE PAGE (well, about). So welcome, and whether this is your first time here or whether you're a seasoned veteran, we want your ideas!
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I propose we follow the same basic proceedure for the expansion pack list list, except each person can only nominate one idea. So from now until May 30, 2002 I think that we should have a nomination and discussion thread, and then starting on June 1st and lasting through June 6th we should vote on the ideas and then send firaxis an ordered list on friday June 7th 2002

Each idea should be 150 words or less, and be as easy to understand as possible.

Comments?

[Gramphos]

I wish you good luck.

It was a very good introduction, lets see if the ideas can be as good. I'll have to think some more before defining mine.

[wrylachlan]

Attack Group

I would love to see an "Attack Group" Function that would allow you to group dissimilar military units together and move them as one. The attack group would allow you to group in air units as well, and when the attack group moves, the air units automatically rebase to the closest possible base.

Furthermore, you don't need to micromanage a group's attack. You simply attack with the whole group and the units automatically attack in the right order.

1.) Fighter planes set up a perimeter.
2.) The bombers come in.
3.) Artillery
4.) Attack by the strongest attacking units.

If your attack is successful and there are units with remaining movement points you get a pop-up which gives you the choice of staying together and loosing the movement points, or splitting up, and the ones whose movement points are used up will catch up and regroup the next turn.

Note that attack groups do not have the same ability as armies, each unit in the attack group still attacks as an individual.

I feel that the ability to macromanage large groups of troops would make the endgame much less tedious.

[Alex]

korn, it is a good idea, but we don't know how much effort Firaxis has already put on the expansion pack.

[MarkG]

korn, your enthusiasm and positive look is something some people should have instead of their bitterness

still with a release date highly possible in the next few months there is incredibly little that can be changed.

even more, as we dont have release date, nor do we have a list of features that have actually been decided, making such a list would be like trying to drawing smileys on water

[Capt Dizle]

Just go back to what SMAC was and the game will be improved 1000%.

Its like the difference between a Sally and **** primer and War and Peace.

[Capt Dizle]

Umm... that was Sally and D*I*C*K strangely enough not censorsed by my primary school teachers.

[MarkG]

your primary school teachers were not php scripts

[Kyle]

Last year Apolyton members produced The List, a 500 page document sent to Firaxis that included innumerable suggestions for Civ 3.

Jeez, it was that big? If I were with Firaxis, I doubt I would've gotten even halfway through that.

If it can be kept to one page, I'm sure that would go over much better with Firaxis.

[korn469]

still with a release date highly possible in the next few months there is incredibly little that can be changed.

even more, as we dont have release date, nor do we have a list of features that have actually been decided, making such a list would be like trying to drawing smileys on water

it is doubtful that a single suggestion might make the cut, however, i do have hope that they will and this hope comes from personal experiance

i noticed in the editor that setting naval to treat all terrain as road had no effect, i emailed firaxis about it, and they changed it because it was a fairly simple small thing to change, i also emailed them about a number of other changes and they didn't change those, but they are at least willing to work with the fans to some degree, and i think that realworld deadline and funding levels hinders them more than anything else

Civ3 didn't meet my expectations, but i don't think any game could have met those expectations, yet it is still a good game, and firaxis has supported it and listened to the fans

here are a few things i can think of right off the top of my head

*peaceful golden ages
*upgrading to CSUs
*the naval thing i just mentioned

and i know there are more

i think as long as just one really good idea makes it into the expansion pack, then it's missioned accomplished

[Jon Shafer]

I think a couple things ought to be changed as far as war and combat goes, and many other things, but due to the constraint of this thread, I'll limit my focus to things that have to do with war.

1) There should be some way to blockade a country with your navy beyond hindering their harbors to prevent trading of a strategic resource or luxury. Especially since this can be bypassed by going through the harbors of one of your neighbors. Giving ships the ability to blockade a coastal city and cut down on the revenue they (and maybe more internal cities) generate would make ships much more valuable. Yes, you can launch planes from an aircraft carrier, but in reality the scope of naval blockades went far beyond this.

2) I have to agree with wrylachlan on that there should be a better way to manage military units. Not giving the special abilities of an army, but some way to organize them better beyond simple hotkey grouping. The vast number of units you have to deal with later in the game makes things very tedious with the way things are now.

I'll leave things at that for now. Oh, and sorry for the 1 extra word over 150.

[Adm.Naismith]

Originally posted by MarkG
still with a release date highly possible in the next few months there is incredibly little that can be changed.

even more, as we dont have release date, nor do we have a list of features that have actually been decided, making such a list would be like trying to drawing smileys on water

Nice image, now would you paint and make available the relevant "smile on water" to use it in posts, please?
Sure, it's already too late. We spent months or years making suggestions. Many where quite near to the released game, but we haven't many hints about the reason Firaxis chosed not to implement them in game.

Just a few examples: artist/science/industrial great people where left on the design board, while only ground great military leader survive with mixed powers and half baked results (IMO).

What stopped Firaxis to add at least great admiral (same effect of current ground leader, but on ships and city on the shores)? And what about great Ace of skies, for airplanes "Air Wings like" effects?

Well, what's done is done. I have some little hope left just in case the announced new "turnless multiplay mode" is anything different and fresh and not a renamed RTS mode.

Of course, if you can use it too in single play mode like (against AI only opponent), that is!

[Jon Shafer]

I'm quite anxious to find out what that turnless multiplayer is all about. It seems like it would be quite a bit of work to get things to work right. How would units move? Would there be a certain amount of time it took each unit to move between spaces? How would this affect player-created scenarios and mods? I just hope it's worked on a bit more than the game itself was. I can't hardly play the game for more than a half an hour without one bug or another ending my game.

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

I know that you only want ONE thing Korn, but I have a few things I'd like to see in the game, which would be reasonably easy to do in an XP!

1) Allow Cease-Fires in peace negotiations (between War and Peace)-standard duration 20 turns, and you lose repect with other civs if you break it early!

2) Allow units to base in the cities, carriers, transports and fortresses of your allies!

3) Remove more of the hard coding from the editor functions, and introduce a scenario scripting language!

4) Bring back Civil Wars!! (see the Civil War thread for more details on how it should be different from Civ2 and Civ1 CW's)

5) Probably not possible, but make the resource dissapearance ratio based on the number of cities in your empire (Divided by the number of that resource you have!)
Anyway, there it is!!
Note of course that, if none or only some of these things are included, I'm not going to rant and rave and scream "I wuz robbed!!" These are merely my wish-list I feel will significantly improve an already FANTASTIC game!! I just hope that we will always continue to get patches, for the standard game and the XP, AS WELL!!

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

[civman2000]

As wrylachlan mentioned, a CTP-like joint attack system would be great