World War II in Europe - tracker thread II

[adamsaka]

Also, did I miss something, is there any reason why the advances for MA were not tradeable during the game.

This broke down the whole English/Russian reasearch pact we setup early in the game.

[Modo44]

In short: Do not attack Germany before you are really prepared. The USSR can stall by forcing the Germans to move in the open (disband some small towns to create buffer zones,) and using its Tanks exclusively on defense (i.e. killing those moving Panzers.) England should try to get Heavy Bombers (lethal land bombardment, and the tech is tradeable,) and do serious bombing (Germany has too few Fighters to realistically counter that for a long time.) Once you attack, make absolutely sure all Rails are severed, or you will get your arse handed over to you (possibly giving Germany yet another Army...)

Originally posted by adamsaka
The Russians developed MA far to late, even with heavy funding from the English in the early game. Before then Russian tanks simpy bounced off the German ones, even in the snow. Russian's also had very poor grade infantry.

I think the scenario killed the USSR. You could not draft normal Infantry, which is just weird. MAs are too fast -- heavy tanks in WWII were never that good. And also, Germany could build (and rebuild) Rails way, way too quickly.

I already have a tweaked version of the scenario to rectify those problems. It includes some other small tweaks.

Originally posted by adamsaka
I probably expected the English to hold out longer when they landed in France, and may have done so if they had researched MA a little earlier.

Continental France is dead meat no matter what. Allowing it to draft Infantry wil let it live a bit longer, but do not expect wonders. Germany has too big an advantage here. I was serious about taking half of it on turn one, even though I did not (this can be tested in SP easy enough.)

Originally posted by adamsaka
The brits are a bit behind the times, perhaps because they have changed hands so many times.

And also, they tried to invade at wrong places. With Rails present, they had no way of holding anywhere except in Norway (as the USSR had no way of holding anywhere except Finland.) Alas, they only sent a token force there.

Originally posted by adamsaka
So should we play this out to the finish? ie, begin the battle of Britain? I think the outcome is inevitable, but Im happy to go on if you guys are.

It will take time to finish, as I do not have Marines yet, but I too believe it is decided now. I will accept any choice you guys make.

Originally posted by adamsaka
Also, did I miss something, is there any reason why the advances for MA were not tradeable during the game.

This broke down the whole English/Russian reasearch pact we setup early in the game.

I think it would be too easy for Garmany (who gets it first) to just give it to Spain and Italy, virtually sealing the game. All they would need is some cash and 1 turn of Oil, and "puff" -- there go all African Allied cities.


(Yup, it is very easy to sound "clever" now, after playing the game. )

[Paddy]

Re: Re: Re: English

Originally posted by adamsaka


...

If we had the spanish as an ally, it could help --hint.

... .)

subtle

[Modo44]

Re: Re: Re: Re: English

Originally posted by Paddy the Scot
subtle

And, at this point, a proposal that would pretty much equal suicide for Spain.

[Paddy]

ahhh the Master grumbles and the servants scatter to serve

[Modo44]

To be perfectly honest, I stopped grumbling a while ago. I only have to blink one eye now.


By the way, if anyone wants to take a look at the modified scenario, I have uploaded it:

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=54803_WW2EuropeMPrpc2(mod).zip

Most important changes (compared to the version we are currently playing):

• Modern Armor renamed to Heavy Tank, has 2 movement points now.
• Normal Infantry is draftable. Infantry II is not, so Germany and England can not draft.
• Tripled Railroad construction cost. Still considering whether it is enough...
• Added a Light Bomber unit. It is weaker and cheaper than a Bomber, has a smaller range (between the Fighter and the Bomber), can detect Invisible, and can do Recon missions. Should be useful for England as a long-range scout, and for the USSR as a cheapo Railroad killer.
• Normal Tanks made a notch cheaper than the Panzer. Not a lot, but still.

All those changes are made for long-term effect. They will not save Frence or the Balkans, but they give the other nations a real fighting chance. They also help the smaller nations a bit, by providing cheaper offensive units (Bombers and Tanks.)

[Paddy]

Thanks - although you may need to work that link a bit as it comes up = file does not exist.

[Modo44]

The link is fixed now, I think. Had turn off the automatic URL parsing -- it thought the parenthesis ended the file name.

[Paddy]

thanks o' great one

[adamsaka]

Originally posted by Modo44


To be perfectly honest, I stopped grumbling a while ago. I only have to blink one eye now.


By the way, if anyone wants to take a look at the modified scenario, I have uploaded it:

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=54803_WW2EuropeMPrpc2(mod).zip

Most important changes (compared to the version we are currently playing):

• Modern Armor renamed to Heavy Tank, has 2 movement points now.
• Normal Infantry is draftable. Infantry II is not, so Germany and England can not draft.
• Tripled Railroad construction cost. Still considering whether it is enough...
• Added a Light Bomber unit. It is weaker and cheaper than a Bomber, has a smaller range (between the Fighter and the Bomber), can detect Invisible, and can do Recon missions. Should be useful for England as a long-range scout, and for the USSR as a cheapo Railroad killer.
• Normal Tanks made a notch cheaper than the Panzer. Not a lot, but still.

All those changes are made for long-term effect. They will not save Frence or the Balkans, but they give the other nations a real fighting chance. They also help the smaller nations a bit, by providing cheaper offensive units (Bombers and Tanks.)

Sorry guys, I will play tonight, got caught up last night. I will keep rolling until I hear otherwise. I am interested in the new scenario.

Sounds good, I like the railway idea. The rate the Germans built rails through occupied Russia is just not realistic. (remembering that all Russian railways were on a different guage and unusable by Germany when captured.) It should also help reflect the fact that Germany struggled to fuel their moving army at times.

From Russia's point of view: I beleive they had alot of the trans-siberian railway built, and East of Moscow there were alot of factories. I gained no manufacturing power east of Moscow in the existing scenario. (Considering Russia produced something like 12.5 million arms in one eastern European city, Izhevsk, home of the AK47.) This city had a rail link to Moscow.

Also, why arn't heavy tanks tradable. In reality, America sent alot of tanks to Russia.

Perhaps Russia should start the game with more workers, because in reality they had as many as they wanted.

Also, I think the Northern Norwegian town of Hamerfest should be included (low population, with harbour) , as one of the best ports on the artic coast, it's control could effect Russian-American shipping.

From England's point of view. The english seem set up well, but is the manufacturing power of American understated? If America could manufacture quicker it would make the sea war more relevant.

OK, I'll play tonight.

If your keen to play the other scenario, I'd be up for it. (either with changed or same teams).

[Modo44]

Originally posted by adamsaka
Also, why arn't heavy tanks tradable. In reality, America sent alot of tanks to Russia.

Yeah, but those were Shermans, not Pershings.

Originally posted by adamsaka
Perhaps Russia should start the game with more workers, because in reality they had as many as they wanted.

Ahh, I forgot to mention. Riflemen can build Roads and Forts. Basic Infantry can build Forts.

As to Workers, one can build them, and one should. Germany started with a few, and has *checks* 140 now. That is only half of what I would like, anyway.

Originally posted by adamsaka
From England's point of view. The english seem set up well, but is the manufacturing power of American understated? If America could manufacture quicker it would make the sea war more relevant.

Build Workers, improve the cities, add Workers back to cities after they are finished. Also, build Settlers to fill the empty land, and use those cities to make Workers or cheap units. England is ranking in cash, so it can afford getting rid of some Specialists. Besides, the Americans did not join the war until late 1941 -- you have enough time to make them productive (those cities are big, and there is space for some more.)

Originally posted by adamsaka
If your keen to play the other scenario, I'd be up for it. (either with changed or same teams).

In. I think it would be more fun if someone else played Germany. USSR or England for me. Do we start it now, or should we wait for the current game to end?

[adamsaka]

Ok, let's start now, no reason we can't play out the other game for a few more turns while the new one gets rolling. The existing game may end quickly anyways, and if it doesn't then it would be worth continuing.

I'd be keen to take play as England.

I will play my turn now. (old game)

[Modo44]

Ok, I will start a setup thread, to try to get up to 5 players.

The new game is here (link).

Sent a link to Paddy, Soltz, and joncnunn (juuust in case. )

[Paddy]

In

[adamsaka]

England

Nav - Amsterdam - Inj
Nav S Vigo - Road Cut
Nav N Barcelona - Road Cut

London thanks the Russians for the memories, and their assistance through these dark days. (but quietly smirks at the end of communism)