C3C PBEM Tournament

[Adagio]

Originally posted by alva
What if we make a link in the strategy/AU forum? Or even a news item?

Isn't it against the rules to make advertising for other games in other forums?

[Rommel2D]

I'm interested. I agree with SR- no 1-on-1, no AI.

How about trying to schedule "intensive turn" times? If a small group could agree to check email every 10-15 minutes for a certain period, we could get quite a few turns in a day. I've seen it suggested before, though I'm not sure how successful it has been.

[Harovan]

I had it once suggested, but it didn't work.

I don't think it's illegal to advertise in other Apolyton forums. It has been done before. The other thing is, in a tournament should play only dedicated PBEM players, who are able to play at least a turn per day (with RL related exceptions, of course), or else one slow player could let the whole league wait, which for certain would be the death of the tournament. I don't know if "advertised" players qualify in this category. We should establish a strict time control.

Another possibility is, as seen in the other PBEM fora (Civ2, CtP), that every game has a "referee", i.e. a player, who gets all turns as "CC" and will automatically play, if a player didn't make his turn without reason for a defined amount of time.

[rogerurb]

Count me in

for the tournament
hoxygen@netvisao.pt

[Tarquinius]

I am interested too provided we play with Conquests and there is no 1 on 1 or AI's involved.
And is 6 players on a small map no option, as that sounds like a more interesting setup.

[Harovan]

Here are some thoughts on a rule set. Discuss!

Number of players

• Games are usually played by at least 4 and at most 6 participants.
• If the number of players in a tournament needs to be adjusted, exceptions are allowed, but should be avoided if possible.
• No game shall be played 1-on-1.
• AIs shall not participate in the games.

World setup

• Games may be played at either pangaeas or archipelagos - May be different tournaments or leagues should be set up
• The world size shall be determined from the list below.
• The temperature, humidity and world age settings shall be set to "random".
• Barbarians shall be set to (?) - to be discussed: random might be unjust

Determination of the result

• Players eliminated from the game end up on the last places. A player's place is the better, the later he gets eliminated
• The player, who triggers a victory condition first, wins the game
• The other places are determined by the score at the end
• Example: In a game participate player A, B, C, D, E, F. B gets eliminated first, D gets eliminated second. Then E achieves a cultural victory. Scores be A-2134, C-1454, E-1972, F-1709. The result is: 1st=E, 2nd=A, 3rd=F, 4th=C, 5th=D, 6th=B

3 players (exception)
Tiny 80% water (360 tiles, 120/player)
1st = 3 points
2nd = 1 point

4 players
Tiny 70% water (540 tiles, 135/player)
1st = 4 points
2nd = 2 points
3rd = 1 point

5 players
Small 80% water (640 tiles, 128/player)
1st = 5 points
2nd = 3 points
3rd = 2 points
4th = 1 point

6 players
Small 70% water (960 tiles, 160/player)
1st = 6 points
2nd = 4 points
3rd = 3 points
4th = 2 points
5th = 1 point

7 players (exception)
Standard 80% water (1000 tiles, 143/player)
1st = 7 points
2nd = 5 points
3rd = 4 points
4th = 3 points
5th = 2 points
6th = 1 point

8 players (exception)
Standard 70% water (1500 tiles, 188/player)
1st = 8 points
2nd = 6 points
3rd = 5 points
4th = 4 points
5th = 3 points
6th = 2 points
7th = 1 point

[Adagio]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph

• Games may be played at either pangaeas or archipelagos - May be different tournaments or leagues should be set up

You're talking about having several tournaments running at the same time?

Originally posted by Sir Ralph

• The world size shall be determined from the list below.

Since it's a tournament I'd say the world size should be tiny, to get some small quick games, otherwise the games are never going to end
Ever tried to play 16 Civs on a tiny map? It's fun... different, but fun...

Originally posted by Sir Ralph

• Barbarians shall be set to (?) - to be discussed: random might be unjust

How can random be too unfair?

[rogerurb]

look fine by me....

Indeed!

[CerberusIV]

I'm interested.

I do think it should always be the same size map and number of players if there is to be scoring on a league or tournament basis, just so games are more directly comparable.

I would say 4 players so there is variety but also a quick turnaround. I'm a bit disillusioned with PBEM's where players drop out or take forever to play a turn (admittedly sometimes for RL reasons) and fewer players and quicker turnarounds would help. I don't think it could, or should, be restricted to players with a record of not dropping out but keeping games small and simple would limit the damage if someone does walk. A referee would help.

[Adagio]

Here's an updated list of players, or possible players:
ADG
alva
GhengisFarb
Sir Ralph
notyoueither
smellymummy
Paddy the Scot
Rommel2D
rogerurb
Tarquinius
CerberusIV


We're 5 people short, if we should keep the "4 players each game" rule! That is, if we're playing tournament style:
There's 4 games in round 1. The winner of each game will go on to the tournament.

I'm still not quite sure about how the point system should work? Is it like this:
Each player plays a # of games at the same time (e.g. 4 games, so each player gets to play each player), and then he gets some points for each game when done... The one with most points at the end of the last game wins!?!

[Harovan]

Originally posted by ADG
You're talking about having several tournaments running at the same time?

There may be several games of the same tournament at the same time. If you have, say, 12 participants, you have to split them in groups.

Since it's a tournament I'd say the world size should be tiny, to get some small quick games, otherwise the games are never going to end

5 or 6 players (see below) on tiny wouldn't be good.

Ever tried to play 16 Civs on a tiny map? It's fun... different, but fun...

I played with 24 on tiny. But Multiplayer is limited to 8 players. And if you care to look a bit closer to my list, tiny and small games are the recommended. In fact, most PBEMs have 4-6 players.

I want to avoid 3-player games if possible. 3 on a map is an instable situation, and a 2 vs 1 alliance as the only option is too unfair. Personal preferences or friendships between players may decide games over the players skills. 4 players (2 vs 2) or 5 players (3 vs 2) are better.

And since you need more options, because not every # of players can by divided by 4, I recommend 5 and 6 player groups too. They may be needed to adjust.

Look:
4 players: 1 game with 4.
5 players: 1 game with 5.
6 players: 1 game with 6.
7 players: 1 game with 4, 1 game with 3 (rare exception).
8 players: 2 games with 4.
9 players: 1 game with 5, 1 game with 4.
10 players: 2 games with 5.
11 players: 1 game with 6, 1 game with 5.
etc.

How can random be too unfair?

Not within one group, but between groups. No barbarians means also no huts. One group may be won easier than the other. And I added the "to be discussed" for a reason.

[Adagio]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
There may be several games of the same tournament at the same time. If you have, say, 12 participants, you have to split them in groups.

Yeah, but I read your post as you're talking about several tournaments, not several games in one tournament... The several games in one tournament is what I've had in mind all the time, since nothing else makes much sense!?!

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
5 or 6 players (see below) on tiny wouldn't be good.

Don't see anything below that mentions why this wouldn't be good... I don't see any problems with it.
If you can play with 24 Civs on a tiny map, then why not 5-6 players on a tiny map?

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Not within one group, but between groups. No barbarians means also no huts. One group may be won easier than the other. And I added the "to be discussed" for a reason.

Between groups? What connection does 'groups' have? Group 2 doesn't get a more diffecult game in the tournament, just because group 1 gets nukes before group 2 gets pikemen?

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

I think the map and settings should be the same for all the games to make it more along the lines of comparing "apples to apples".

Tiny four players, with random settings except for Barbarians which we could poll on the setting for Barbarians and keep it the same through out all the games.

Perhaps we could have two ratings. One based on average final score at the end of the game and one based on place. Winner gets 5 points, 2nd 4 points, 3rd 3 points, and last 1 point (winner gets a bonus point).

[Harovan]

I give it up. I think I will step back and look what rules you discuss. Perhaps I will join the tournament, and perhaps not.

[Adagio]

Sorry, but I just don't have any clue what you're talking about...

If someone could make draw an example of your idea, it might help clueless me...