New AU PBEM course

[Theseus]

As we all know, SP activity has been waning quite a bit, whereas PBEMs just keep going (and going and going)

This has shown to be the case in the AU forum as well, in that all but one of our courses to date have been SP.

I'm going to suggest that our next course be MP, in PBEM mode. That said, however, I'd like to jazz things up a bit, and wanted to gather some ideas here. Some thoughts, in no particular order:

* Not one-on-one... we already did that (and I think most participants thought it went pretty well).

* We should capitalize in some way on the Iron Civer experiences.

* I'd like to offer the game in both stock and with either the AU Mod or the AU MP Mod (if that is sufficiently developed).

* On the other hand, possibly based on one of the Conquests?

* I'd like to consider a team format, rather than just FFA. This could be a team of players against a number of AI civs, or team against team. [EDIT: Including some inter-site games. ]

Perhaps most importantly, we always like to have a theme, or a particular lesson/technique to work on...

Any thoughts??

[Paddy]

small map, starter pack... 6 mixed units min... extra trait... 4 players max... run a muk

someone cannot play and does not post details within (time to be determined) then their turn is played by game administrator

game administrator to have a long chat with Rommel on how he monitored and pushed the Iron Civver Tournie to being the success it is

[punkbass2000]

I don't have any particular thoughts, but I would play an AU course if it was PBEM.

[Aqualung71]

I must say, I was an enthusiastic AU stalwart from the release of C3C, but like others my interest has waned to the extent that I haven't even finished AU505 or AU506.

AU601 was interesting since it was the first AU attempt at PBEM, but after several experiences at 1 on 1 PBEM play, it no longer excites me.

So, my 2c worth is as follows:

1. At least 4 players per game (a-la Iron Civer)

2. As Paddy suggests, a starter pack with extra settlers/workers/warriors helps get things started more quickly, but I ABSOLUTELY VETO AP, which some players like;

3. Again based on the Iron Civer format, it seems a competitive aura is best for helping progression of games (shock horror, this is not the aim of AU!!!). Rommel really got it right with the Iron Civer

4. Don't offer the game in both stock and mod. One only, be it stock or mod. I'd favour mod, but would be happy to acceed to the majority if it means we all play under the same rules.

5. I think one of the Conquests would be interesting, as long as participants understand some of the limitations and "brokenness" of some of the conquests and select appropriately.

6. Absolutely NO AI. My 12 months heavy involvement in PBEM has proven that on the odd occasion an AI is involved, almost all the fun is taken out of the game via manipulation. Level playing field, don't move the goal-posts.....humans vs humans, period!

7. Team of players - already tried, interesting concept, but doesn't this just make it another DemoGame? we've just started a PBEM DemoGame, so I'm not sure of the interet you'll generate for another one.

8. Theme - absolutely! Personally, I prefer being told what our theme and objectives are, rather than just being given an auto-generated map and told "go for it" just like in a random SP game. IMHO, this is also more in line with the AU theme.

Ok, perhaps that was 10c worth, but I hope it helps

[Theseus]

Originally posted by Aqualung71
7. Team of players - already tried, interesting concept, but doesn't this just make it another DemoGame? we've just started a PBEM DemoGame, so I'm not sure of the interet you'll generate for another one.

I was thinking of some flexibility in this regard: teams could choose their own format, whether straightforward PBEM with alliances, succession (one player plays all of the team civs in a given turn), or demogame (team effort across all the team civs).

Thanks for the input, btw.

[Dominae]

How about a PBEM using the Mesopotamia Conquest?

[Dominae]

Another idea: a standard PBEM, but with mandatory DARs.

The purpose is to teach/learn PBEM skills. Players would report on their experiences in a standard AU DAR structure (perhaps more frequently). These DARs would be open to everyone, including the other players. Therefore it would not be possible to "hide" anything from other players (there would be a rule against misinformation via DARs). This is not necessarily a bad thing, as periodic looks into each other player's civ could cause some interesting diplomatic tensions ("So, you've been prebuilding Horsemen, eh!?").

[Rhothaerill]

Originally posted by Dominae
How about a PBEM using the Mesopotamia Conquest?

There has actually already been one that has finished (won by yours truly as Phoenicia ), and one currently going (slowly ) right now so I won't be joining a new one.

I can definitely say that the Mesopotamia scenario is fun for PBEMs, much more so than as an SP game. But I don't know if it's worthy as a "learning experience" PBEM because it's quite a bit different than a "normal" game. There is quite a bit more emphasis on combat and capturing cities because of the victory points. Just my opinion though.

For example I could give you my specific strategy for how I won as Phoenicia, but it's only really workable in that very limited instance. I ended up doing several things that you wouldn't normally see in a standard game, because it only pertained to how to win quickly as Phoenicia in the Mesopotamia conquest.

Your second idea of a PBEM with mandatory DARs out in the open is a good one. It's similar to the Reality PBEM at MZO right now (with out the kick-out a player every few turns vote). Perhaps put out a DAR every 3-5 turns or so, or even every turn.

[UnOrthOdOx]

I could go for another PBEM.

I don't know how much time I could devote to a DAR. I could certainly hit all the general stuff.

I do know very little about the AU mod, but would not be opposed to going at it anyhow.

[Dominae]

Originally posted by Rhothaerill
Your second idea of a PBEM with mandatory DARs out in the open is a good one. It's similar to the Reality PBEM at MZO right now (with out the kick-out a player every few turns vote). Perhaps put out a DAR every 3-5 turns or so, or even every turn.

I was thinking of a DAR every 30-40 turns or so. It's less work, and still allows for surprise maneuvers.

[UnOrthOdOx]

I'm definately in for DAR's every 30-40 turns.

[Theseus]

Here's what I've got so far:

* Title: AU 602 - MP Teaming

* Theme: Coordination. Seriously. How do partners advise and coach each other? How do they leverage the strengths (and minimize weaknesses) that they each have, whether it's their civs, UUs, terrain, location, etc.? On that note, I think it'd be kinda neat if each team were to be composed of a newer player and a hoary old hand. BTW, I am anticipating that MP / PBEM is going to be a stronger factor in Civ4 (at least compared to the initial release of Civ3 )... let's get ready!

* Teams: 3 teams of 2 players each. Civs should be culturally linked, and pre-selected, so players are selecting their teammates and which of the three culture pairs that are offered. I'm leaning toward (if possible) one player having a Ancient UU, and one having a Medieval UU. Team civs to be placed near (but not too near) each other.

* Number of games: As many as we can fill. In addition to the participation of ALL the PBEM stalwarts ( ), I will invite players at MZO, CFC, the Ladder, the Spanish, the Germans, etc., to play.

* Administrator: Make sure things move along. Step in to play turns if necessary. Oversee replacement players if necessary. Judge, jury, and executioner if things come up and rulings need to be made. Depending on how many games, we may need more than one.

* Scenario Designer: Make scenario changes, select the map, place civs. Insert evil surprises. Based on stock, not the AU Mod or any other... we'll get more participants that way, and the AU Mod doesn't make *that* much of a difference for all-human games.

* Map / scenario: Standard, continents, 80% water, normal, temperate, 3B. Designed to provide for three primary continents, one for each team, accessible by Galleys. Not AP. Three native lux per continent, but two lux (ivory and ?) only on islands. Strat resources through saltpeter on each continent... after that? :chuckle:

* Level: Uh, I'm sorta newbie-ish on this... what is considered best for this type of game?

* Starter pack: 2 each of Settlers, Workers, and Warrior/equivalents; one Scout if EXP.

* Team behavior: Team members may communicate anything and everything to each other, maps, screenshots, science, whatever. Non-team members may not communicate except what's available in game -- you may communicate anything that would be technically communicable in game, so once map trading is available you can give specific directions; once mil. alliance is available you may make a military alliance; once communication is open, you may discuss scientific advances. Communication with one team member is communication with both.[NOTE: Thanks to snoopy, who I quoted from "Team PBEM" for the above.] Further, teams have the choice of playing as PBEM with a locked alliance, succession, or mini-DG; this should be disclosed in their first DAR.

* Time slots: NOT. That being said, since it's an AU course, and potentially inter-site, I expect that more people than usual will be watching. I like the idea of team partners disclosing their passwords to each other, so they can cover playing a given turn for the team if necessary.

* Mandatory DARs: Level of disclosure TBD. DARs should be joint reports by the team partners. Thanks to sabrewolf for this suggested schedule from AU 601 (yes, I know that it was meant to just track turns, but it works for this course differently):
- 2750bc: 25 turns, switching to 40 years/turn
- 1750bc: 25 turns, switching to 25 years/turn
- 1250bc: 20 turns
- 750bc: 20 turns, switching to 20 years/turn
- 250bc: 25 turns
- 250ad: 25 turns, switching to 10 years/turn
- 500ad: 25 turns
- 750ad: 25 turns
- 1000ad: 25 turns
- 1250ad: 25 turns, switching to 5 years/turn
- 1350ad: 20 turns
- 1450ad: 20 turns
- 1550ad: 20 turns
- 1650ad: 20 turns
- 1750ad: 20 turns, switching to 2 years/turn

* Playing for money: Optional.

[Tassadar500]

That sounds great, Theseus. You have my full support.

[Andydog]

This looks really really good Theseus!

[Moonbars]

Originally posted by Andydog
This looks really really good Theseus!

Ditto