Jane PBEM

[snoopy369]

Compared it to a SP game, same settings as far as i know, same nation (Byz.) ... had the same tech in 43 turns at the 'base' level of 2gp -> science, much lower as i upped science (the start i got had an extra trade compared with my MP game, but still) ... SP game with the mod Dominae posted in the first page of this thread...

Maybe i'm just being paranoid, but it's a bit odd to me.

[Aqualung71]

on to Vovan

[ducki]

same settings as far as i know,

Same difficulty too?
I forget, but doesn't difficulty affect tech rate? Or is it just map size?

[vovan]

On to ducki.

[Dominae]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Compared it to a SP game, same settings as far as i know, same nation (Byz.) ... had the same tech in 43 turns at the 'base' level of 2gp -> science, much lower as i upped science (the start i got had an extra trade compared with my MP game, but still) ... SP game with the mod Dominae posted in the first page of this thread...

By 'base' level 2gp -> science, I assume you mean your empire is producing 2 Beakers per turn at 50% Science. So I figure you've got a net income of 4 Commerce per turn. If you empire produced 3 Commerce per turn instead, this might be rounded to 2gpt + 1bpt (Beakers per turn). So the tech that costs you ~90 Beakers total (Warrior Code?) now takes 90 turns to research, which the game lowers to 50 turns.

Just one extra Commerce in the early-game can really make the tech completion predictions vary widely (3 is bigger than 2 by 50%, after all).

Even if my analysis above is wrong (probably), I calculated the ETA on my first tech and it works out as expected (no mods).

[snoopy369]

But when i put 4 gp to science, it still does not go down (still is at 50 turns) ... this was my concern.

Perhaps like you say it's just the difficulty level combined with the difficulty of the research... just worried me, is all. If it's working out properly for everyone else, then it's just my rank ignorance.

[Dominae]

Well, it all depends on what you're researching, of course. If you're going for Writing, the tech cost should be somwhere around 30*8 = 240 beakers. So even if you're at 4bpt, it takes 240/4 = 60 turns to complete, which the game reduces to 50.

[ducki]

On to Dom.

[Aqualung71]

While we're talking about research.....something I've wondered about and have vaguely tested lately is the minimum research time.

Say your tech cost is 120. You can research at 3bpt in 40 turns or at 4bpt in 30 turns. If you drop to 1bpt to conserve cash, you get it in 50 turns because of the minimum. Theoretically this should give you an artibtrage situation, where you can only use 50 beakers over the course of the research to gain the tech, keeping the rest in your treasury (ignoring the effect of growth).

However, it seems that even though you will get the tech in 50 turns, only 1 beaker comes off the target each turn....so in my example after turn 1 you are left with 119 beakers, turn 2, 118 beakers, and so on. The effect of this is that there is no real benefit in dropping down to 1bpt (also ignoring scientists), as you still need to make up the beakers later if you wish to get the tech in less than 50 turns.

Can someone more informed than me comment on this please?

[Dominae]

There was a discussion on that very point some time ago in another thread, Aqua (I thought that was with you, but I guess not). IMO:

If you're going to do 50-turn research, you have to decide to right from the beginning and stick with it. Otherwise you're losing valuable turns that you could be using to research something else. The counter-argument to this is that you're not actually losing any commerce so it's no big deal, but this is not the right way to look at it because you can always halt research to put Taxes way up to earn some Gold if you need it. If you never end up needing that Gold, you're still on track with your best ETA to complete the tech; half-measures will save you Gold that you may not end up needing at all.

[Dominae]

3900BC to Beta.

[ducki]

Shhhh! Dominae! You're supposed to say something like "Yeah, 30% science is the best. Just ask my wife, Morgan Fairchild, whom I've slept with!"

Hehe, I'm also of the all-or-nothing mindset. Only rarely will I try to speed up research, and it generally doesn't seem to help as much as if I'd researched faster and needed to increase taxes.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Sir Ralph, mind if I ask how seriously the tech rate was modded, or more specifically the 'min turns'? I'm fairly experienced at civ, and this is the first time i've ever had a 50 turn first advancement with this decent of a start... no matter what science level i choose, 10% to 90%.

You have to ask Dominae. He sent me a ready mod, and all I did was to add the map.

[Beta]

Save to snoopy.

[snoopy369]

Sent to Aqua.