Emperor Level Frustration

[PJNagrom]

Every game I play on Emperor level seems to start the same way. I play with 7-8 other civs and every game they gain a huge tech lead. No matter how good of a start I have (3 or 4 techs from goodie huts) by the time I meet another civ they already have a lead.

About the time I'm struggling to get writing or something of that level ALL the other civs race ahead to the next age. Every Civ shares with every other civ and I get left in the dust. Occasionally I'll catch up with a well timed war or Resource/Luxury trade only to fall way behind after a few more turns.

I have played through one game as Carthage and thanks to their UU I conquered my way to technology and eventually won a space race.

Does this sound familiar? Anyone have different experiences?

[ToeTruck]

At Emperor or Deity, you will spend most of the early game behind in the tech race. That's just the way it is.

The best ways out of it are early war (Archer rush or quick Iron Working), *massive* expansion, or building the Great Library.

Each one has worked well for me...but you have to be single minded. No waffling. If you war, then do it hard. If you expand, don't bother building anything other than a granary or two. And if you build the Great Library, concentrate on getting a size-12 city as quickly as possible.

If all goes well, partway through the Middle Ages, you will have caught up tech-wise and can assert a lead entering the Industrial Age. That's been my experience.

Also, I've found that the greater the landmass (and the more connected it is), the quicker you fall behind. At Emperor and Deity, the AI trades tech and maps like crazy.

Try playing 80% water archipelago. That slows the AI down and makes for a very interesting game.

- TT

[Spiffor]

I have just started an emperor game as the Spanish on a huge map, continent, 16 civs. We are at the age of mathematics and polytheism, and I am the second in tech.

The only way not to be too late in the tech race at the beginning of emperor level is to do tech whoring on a systematical basis, nearly every turn. If you are successful in tech-whoring you can both get science and make money (if it quite difficult to achieve though).

That, and you have to do some early conquest. It is impossible to build cities at the same rate as the AI, so war is the only option to have enough economic potential to overresearch your rivals.

[Catt]

IMHO, one of the biggest stumbling blocks to moving up in difficulty levels is entirely mental -- it is quite easy to believe your position to be hopeless and the game to be lost. But if you play these games out (sometimes doing all you can to maintain that "never say die" attitude), you may very well soon come to the realization that the situation wasn't hopeless - not by a longshot - it was only your inexperience with the in-game effects of the challeneges of the difficulty level.

If you can grit your teeth and live with being behind (sometimes frighteningly behind) in techs in the early game, you just might find, after several games, that such a prospect is far less worrisome than it was the first time you were there -- i.e., you might find that it is par for the course at Emperor, and in a subsequent game where you find yourself in Spiffor's shoes, you might think "Wow, I'm crushing this game!"

Catt

[ToeTruck]

I agree with Catt that the biggest stumbling block to success at Emperor and Deity is mental. You can't expect to kick butt every game out. Sometimes, just a single tech lead really is crushing your opponent.

Also, I've also found that the AI is its own worse enemy in the sense that the Industrial Age is chock full of massive wars. I can usually take advantage of that period of chaos to snag a few city sites and play my rivals against each other.

- TT

[PJNagrom]

I agree with those last 2 posts. The more I go after the Emperor level the more I see that a tech lag can be overcome - most times. It's amazing how the right tech gain or the right war win can catch you up in a big hurry.

My Carthaginian game even came with a lousy starting point and I just kept grinding away. I was just wondering if that's the normal way it goes. I guess it is pretty common.

[MattH]

Catt- you are so right. When I started playing, I'd meet the first civ and panic-build to 'catch up'. I finally realized that I was not behind, I was just nervous. Note To Self: Civ is just a game.

[Theseus]

I find that more often than not, given a non-crap start, I do in fact out-REX, out-research, and out-produce the AI civs in the early game on Emperor.

The keys for me were learning how to optimize city placement (and timing... which ones in which order), how to build Settler / Worker Pumps, and how to maximize the use of my best tiles.

And, yeah, smart tech trading and an ultra-early war or two don't hurt either!!

[Dominae]

If you're main goal is to keep up in research with the Emperor-level AI, might I suggest a Pangea game as Russia. Once the techs and contacts start pouring in, you should be able to use diplomacy to keep yourself rich and advanced. Just remember to check the Diplo screen almost every turn, as you'll surely miss some good opportunities otherwise


Dominae

[ThePlagueRat]

How is it possible to do successful tech whoring on Emperor?
Won't those AI lunatics usually demand about 2 techs for giving 1 away?

[Theseus]

Nope... you just have to know what tech values are. Get an early branch lead in just about anything, and you can pulll the reverse: get two of their starting techs for what you've researched.

[Nor Me]

Originally posted by ThePlagueRat
How is it possible to do successful tech whoring on Emperor?
Won't those AI lunatics usually demand about 2 techs for giving 1 away?

No. Actually the AI trades quite fairly (Must post links: AI - human trade revisited )

As long as you understand that sensibly the AIs value a tech less if a lot of other civs have it or even if they are about to finish researching it, you should be able to get good deals.

In fact, an AIs will often pay you more for a tech than it would cost them to research it.

Because it will take longer for you to start seriously outresearching the AI, tech whoring is much better at Emperor than lower levels.

When playing builder, I often encounter the reverse problem, the AI doesn't research fast enough in the Industrial age especially if there's a world war even on Emperor. My last game was OCC which I was trying to win by Spaceship before culture and I found this even then.

[ThePlagueRat]

Hmm... Sounds strange, but I guess you are right.

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Catt
"never say die"
Catt

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Catt
IMHO, one of the biggest stumbling blocks to moving up in difficulty levels is entirely mental -- it is quite easy to believe your position to be hopeless and the game to be lost.
Catt

This is true in many endevers. I remember first riding bikes in San Diego and going up this one nasty hill for about 1.4 miles at a very steep grade. I finally realized it was not my body that was having the trouble, it was my mind. Once my mind knew I could do it, it forvced my body to go over top no matter how many miles I had already gone.
Same in Emp/Deity, once you teach your mind you can do it, you will see the postions as markers not tombstones.