Resources in jungle

[Flanker]

BTW, why is everyone associating jungle with south America?? There are jungles in Africa and Asia too...

Well, when I´m thinking of jungles, or at least the Swedish word for it (djungel), Í mostly think of the tropical forests in India. Maybe it´s because of Kiplings "Djungle book"? In Africa and South America I would rather refer to it as "rain forests" or "tropical forests". Actually, there are tropical forests that are rather dry, so the word "rain forest" might not be apropriate in all cases.

[Thirgaral]

ok...I surrender, there were jungle in Mexico

but even though that now is a fact in my brain, I still don´t believe that they were great civs living on the jungle...but you´ll convince me they were I guess...

[Cruddy]

Originally posted by pedrojedi
Have you ever gone to a jungle and tried to walk through it? Man, just passing by is big problem, imagine tearing it down! We're talking just about trees, but there are bugs, animals, rain, oh, so much rain, and sand water and so so so... Depolute is "faster", at least normal pollution.

I could be talking rubbish here, (I haven't been within 1000 miles of a jungle) but I seem to recall Ray Mears (Myers? English survival expert) refer to 2 types of jungle - primary and secondary.

Primary is the untouched stuff, with all the vegetation competing and the tallest trees winning out. I think "virgin rain forest" is another term for it...

Secondary is what you get a few years after bush fires or similar catastrophic cutback - the big trees are gone, and the bushes, briars and creepers win out, making it extremely difficult to walk through.

So how about 2 types, the primary giving an extra resource, and the secondary being the normal nightmare in Civ 3?

[pedrojedi]

Too complex. Stick with the good stuff, the elementary "jungle".

I do not believe in secondary or primary jungles, since that, for movement, both of them are very bad terrain. Even so, there are bushes, creepers and briars in primary jungles, so walking through them is as hard with or without trees. The main problem are the animals, insetoes and arachnids... When you least expect it, a jibóia (ji-BOH-ia, may sometimes be called "anaconda", which is another snake, but with the same gigantic size) can fall over your head, a panther can jump on your neck, a big great black hand can "fly" to your face (a big spider 30cm wide!), and, if you do not die, there are always tropical diseases, like dengue, yellow fever, ebola, malária, cólera, etc etc etc...

[Flanker]

Maybe they should have swamps back in the game, as in Civ II? They were exactly as annoying and bad as jungles, but the graphics looked a little bit different. Overall, I would be glad if they had some more different terrain. I recall there were "glaciers" for example. It would also be nice if the flood plains looked a little bit different than the regular desert. And I also miss the oasis. And, above all, where are the bananas???

[Spiffor]

I agree, swamps would be good. There are swamps in tons of places in the world, from central Africa to Siberia, and it's very sad they aren't represented at all

[Hurricane]

I think the best solution would have been to make resources disappear if you change the terrain. That is, silks would disappear if you chop down the jungle they are in. This way you would need to make more strategic choices, not the routinely chop-down-everything-in-sight stitch you do now.

[Spiffor]

I would be ok with that, but resources should have a more positive impact on the tile's production then. Ivory (meaning elephants) would bring one mre food or one more shield for example, etc.

[epics]

yeah, good idea, but say you chop down the jungle where there is rubber (but you don;t know it yet) and all other jungle with rubber would be choped down there would be no rubber on the map!

[Hurricane]

Good point, epics. But the AI is so crappy about clearing those jungles that they'd probably have lots of jungle around even then.

[epics]

Yes, the AI probably would have those jungles but the human player clears all jungles in his teritory.
this idea is good, but needs to be worked on. In real I think the jungles weren't cut down till the industrial age when we had the techs to do that. And when that happened we also knew that there is rubber in the jungle.
It would be quite risky idea but maybe not allow jungle cut till industrial age?

[Spiffor]

That's a good idea epics, but Jungle civs need to become viable then. I think it could be done if a jungle produces at least one more shield (Jungle civs used it for wood extensively), and if there are bonuses there which produce significant extra food, like bananas.

[epics]

I'm still for not adding any shields and extra food to the jungle, but sure, those civs in jugnls had to had some profit from it. maybe animals? I don;t know. Is here somebody who stiudied 'jungle civs' ??

[Spiffor]

I didn't study "jungle Civs", but I know the Mayans used stone above all as a building raw material, and the Khmers favored wood. Indians elephants are found in the Jungle, and they were an important asset for various works there, notably in the woodworks. (they helped transporting logs). I think a significant chunk of the Mayan food came from the sea though.

[epics]

So we need to figure out what resources can jungle give. The shield bonus from cutting jungle is obvious: 10shields would be enough.
But I think any additional food or shields would be unrealistic. Civ's that lived among jungle were very little societies so they could live with resources it gaved to them, but a city in jungle?! can't be done!!