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  • Food Distribution

    Hi. Love the show. Long-time listener, first-time caller.

    I had a question about food supplies in CivIII/PtW, if anyone can help.

    Civ II gave the option on food convoys, as well as caravans. Caravans got the push in CivIII because you could stash them as a shield-bank through the game and insta-build Wonders, fair enough. Dumb exploit, don't need it. Trading system was clumsy, too.

    Food convoys could be a real boon sometimes in the game though. I usually play a huge-expander, sprawling, long-map kinda game, and often have cities with huge surpluses down the road from starving desert towns. There are sometimes tactical reasons to want these towns bigger than their local food resources allow, even if just for a while. Same holds true for some of your metros; you want some of them BIG, especially when you're pushing for industrial supremacy. London and New York don't feed their populations on what they grow locally, unless you can feed the citizens parking meters.

    Why can't I send them food anymore ? I just sent the guy in the next hemispere 50 ICBMs and 30 transports of armour, the hard way, and I can't sling some bags of wheat in a truck to go down the road ?!

    I've always run standard game plus offical patches; I haven't been that interested in scenarios so I didn't play with the Editor, upshot being I don't know if this is something that could be edited around in terms of rules changes, new unit type, etc.

    If anyone knows, or wants to tell me I've been dumb and point me in the right direction in the standard game, lay it on. (Sorry about the length, had to blow off steam ). Thanks in advance.

  • #2
    It can't be done, SalvationArmy. Sorry. Though believe me when I tell you that there are many more who feel exactly the same way.

    Me? I've always thought that cities should grow in size based on the amount of commerce they generate, and the nation's food supply should be automatically shipped from big food producing cities to big industrial/commercial towns without any farms.

    But even an old fashioned caravan would be nice.

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    • #3
      Yup - can't be done.

      I came to Civ III without any Civ experience and so don't long for some of the things veteran civ players miss in Civ III. But I really enjoy the "static" nature of food supplies -- if food were freely transferable, city planning and placement would be that much easier and less thoughtful a process. As it stands now, one of the challenges I enjoy in city placement is determining how to make the most out of available terrain -- securing enough food to make those gem-encrusted mountains workable and productive (at least as much as possible).

      Catt

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      • #4
        Re: Food Distribution

        Originally posted by SalvationArmy


        If anyone knows, or wants to tell me I've been dumb and point me in the right direction in the standard game, lay it on. (Sorry about the length, had to blow off steam ). Thanks in advance.
        Probably because the AI wouldn't know how to use them very well, giving the human a big advantage.

        Comment


        • #5
          I think Catt hit the nail on the head. If food distribution is realistic, other game mechanics suffer.

          Realistically, it should be pretty easy to move food around especially in the late game. Load up a train and you're done. Even in the early game, there's no reason food should move more slowly than a military unit...well maybe a bit, but even half-speed is reasonable.

          But, as Catt points out, the importance of city planning and city placement would be greatly reduced.

          There are probably a zillion game dynamics that could solve this problem, but none that have been implemented through the editor or that are on Firaxis' to-do list.

          -TT

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          • #6
            I just thought of something (maybe could be implemented in the future): after a civ can build granaries (or maybe only if it has the Pyramids), it should be able to have something like a national food reserve. Any city that produces more than, say, 2 food, should have the option to store some food in the national reserve. Any city that experiences hunger will tap into this reserve and will not shrink as long as there is some food left. A city that can't grow anymore (no aqueduct/hospital) will automatically store the extra food in the national reserve.

            Or, perhaps the "food caravan" could work similar to the freighters in MOO2.
            The monkeys are listening.

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            • #7
              A national food reserve should come much later than granaries. Maybe with railroads. We already have trade networks in the game, we could have a food network as well. For two cities to be connected there had to be railroads connecting them, commercial docks for overseas cities.

              It could add some depth to late-game warfare. By conquering a nations wheat fields you could start a nation-wide famine. Starving a whole country instead of a single city.
              Don't eat the yellow snow.

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              • #8
                Well, thanks for all the input folks, but it looks like I'm on a hiding to nothing. Just have to put up with it !

                At least I'm not alone; misery loves company, eh ?

                The only thing I could think of was maybe it would be possible to flag the output of a developed square near one city and "divert" the output to another nominated city with a rail/sea connection, but this raises a lot of other issues like visible markers in the city screens to indicate the diversion, new entries in the Trade/Domestic Advisor screens, etc. and other front-end mods way out of my league to implement. I could see that being a tricky mod, if possible at all.

                I'll have to express my frustration by shelling Tatung. That'll make me feel better . . . (Although I was reading through Sava's thread on bombardment & air raids and it's clearly a bit of a contentious subject. I may throw my 5 cents worth in later as I'm a bit of a fan, albeit with a few caveats).

                Thanks again ! Catch you soon.

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                • #9
                  I've mentioned this somewhere before, but I feel that cities which are connected to the Capital, via a road or rail network, should get bonuses to production, food and commerce-based on the total number of cities in the empire which are likewise connected up to the capital! This would represent the flow of freight, such as raw materials and manufactered goods, within the empire!

                  Yours,
                  The_Aussie_Lurker.

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                  • #10
                    Once a city is connected to the capitol via the trade network it will get lower corruption. And share resources/luxures. I don't think they need a bigger bonus.
                    Don't eat the yellow snow.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by bongo
                      Once a city is connected to the capitol via the trade network it will get lower corruption. And share resources/luxures. I don't think they need a bigger bonus.
                      I don't think there's a bonus to cities for being connected other than their access to resources and luxuries.

                      In CtP, connecting cities to the capital reduced unhappiness and crime, but it has no effect on corruption in Civ3.

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                      • #12
                        You're right, Fosse, which means that, in my opinion at least, my original idea still stands up to scrutiny!

                        Yours,
                        The_Aussie_Lurker.

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                        • #13
                          No - bongo is correct. Connecting a city to the capitol (via roads, harbors, airports, etc.) is factored into the corruption calculation.

                          Check out the user-friendly Corruption FAQ by alexman, or the less user-friendly but more "nitty-gritty" Everything you wanted to know about corruption but were afraid to ask thread, also by alexman of course!

                          Catt

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                          • #14
                            Both Catt and Bongo are correct. The threads that Catt references are excellent and very helpful.

                            - TT

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                            • #15
                              I stand corrected. Silly me!

                              Well, I'm glad... as Aussie says, it is a good idea! I'm glad it's in.

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