Super Powers

[Wycoff]

I always play on a standard map with continents, and I have noticed a common trend. There always seems to be an unstoppable AI superpower, one that is constantly at war and conquers all other AIs on its continent. By 1850, especially when there are only two continents, there are only two civs left: Myself and the Super AI. I think that the AI allows one civ to dominate the other AI civs to be able to compete with the player on more even footing, and things usually come down to a superpower conlict. The dominant civ changes. This game it was the Persians, before that the Koreans, and before that the Chinese.

Does this happen to anyone else?

[vmxa1]

I do not think it is a plan or a strategy from the Devs, it is just the natural flow of things in the game.
Some will try to help the lessor civs a bit to slow down the juggernaut.
Me I let the chips fall where they may for the most part and act as if all civs must die.

[Dominae]

Re: Super Powers

Originally posted by Wycoff
I always play on a standard map with continents, and I have noticed a common trend. There always seems to be an unstoppable AI superpower, one that is constantly at war and conquers all other AIs on its continent.

Could you describe the games where you've had this experience more precisely (civs, starting locations, land form, etc.)? I'm interested in knowing how these KIAs (Killer AIs) arise, since the games where they do are the most fun.


Dominae

[Wycoff]

I always play on a standard map, 8 civs, using Germany with culturaly linked starts, on continents, on monarch level. The continents are too far apart to be reached by Galley, and by the time the civs can reach each other the continents are full of their original civs. While I am fighting to domiante my continent, the Killer AI is fighting to dominate its continent.
In my last game Persia had conquered its entire continent by 1450, and had 50 cities. It became involved in wars with civs on my continent, but they were insignificant. By 1875 I had conquered my continent, had 50 cities of my own, and had a century long superpower standoff that ended in a war and the nuclear annihilation of Persia (as is documented in the nuclear war thread).

This type of thing happens to me every game, and every game I use the same settings. The game before that I had dominated my continent by about 100 A.D. and was isolated until the 1500s. Korea was on a continent that was about twice the size of mine, and conquered it by the late 1800s. I barely won the space race on that game.

[Master Zen]

Interesting Wycoff, honesty I think it's just a major coincidence that this happens in ALL of your games. Of course, superpowerdom is easier to achieve with less civs.

My current game is Huge and it's the 1700s and no one has conquered its continent although I'm about to do so in a while... (operation Iroqouis Freedom)

[CerberusIV]

I usually play continents maps and don't always get a superpower AI. I think it is influenced by the aggression levels of the various civs and whether they are in the same cultural group. I have noticed that (at least in my games) if the Aztecs, Americans and Iroquois are on a continent with no others they usually stay pretty stable.

[Pyrodrew]

Re: Super Powers

Originally posted by Wycoff
I always play on a standard map with continents, and I have noticed a common trend. There always seems to be an unstoppable AI superpower, one that is constantly at war and conquers all other AIs on its continent. By 1850, especially when there are only two continents, there are only two civs left: Myself and the Super AI. I think that the AI allows one civ to dominate the other AI civs to be able to compete with the player on more even footing, and things usually come down to a superpower conlict. The dominant civ changes. This game it was the Persians, before that the Koreans, and before that the Chinese.
Does this happen to anyone else?

I would wager this is caused by how you play the game, more than luck. It is definitely not in every game, for me & others at least. I rarely have 1 AI Superpower as I do everything I can to avoid that.

I would further wager if you made it a goal to actively weaken the strongest AI (not necessarily through direct attacks) during your games you could help hinder this.

A warmonger AI might throw my plans off track temporarily, but I always seek to weaken the strongest AI, regardless if I am the underdog or have a huge lead.

Depending on the AI Superpower's Power Army Size, Techs, Allies/Trading Partners & Location you have to decide...
1.Declare War (you alone vs the Superpower) w/ possibly embargoes - most potential profit
2.Coalition War (you&allies vs. the AI Superpower) w/ possibly embargoes - quickest & safer
3.Mass Embargo (you&allies embargo the Superpower) - safer & easier than 1&2, but could lead to war
4.Embargo (you embargo the Superpower alone) - I don't recommend this
5.Help the enemies of the AI Superpower (trade/gifts) - safer than 1-4
6.Don't embargo & don't trade with the AI Superpower (unless they demand & you feel in danger) - safer than 1-4
7.Only trade 1 resource with AI Superpower to keep good relations - safest
8.Be their b!tch & trade/give the Superpower everything they want (this is the worst obviously) - safest in the shortrun, but in the long run deadly since you'll have nothing to offer when they DEMAND more.

Since the AI is NOT programmed with a 'balance of power' in the game, when the human player starts to get a lead the game gets more boring, IMO. The human can just constantly keep widening the gap between his/her strength & the weaker AIs... nothing is there to challenge the human later. And no one better say Corruption... Corruption hurts the AI more than the Human & is tedious after the x-hundredth time too.

[Spec]

Nope, I dont let it happen. When I see a civ that is getting to strong I declare war on them and have every civ close to the enemy ally with me to keep it at a normal size empire.

It always works.

Spec.

[CerberusIV]

Originally posted by Spectator

It always works.

Not if you are on a continents map and one AI civ overruns the others before you get contact with that continent. It can be too late to do anything about it. Fortunately it doesn't happen too often.

[badams52]

I think it rather depends upon the civ in battle and the RNG. If you look at some of the AU games on the strategy forum (specifically I know for 206), sometimes the weaker AIs on the other continent are wiped out, sometimes not.

In AU206, a few players found Russia when the found the other continent, others only found a strong America and France. If I hadn't intervened and set-up a DMZ between Russia and America in my game, Russia might have been wiped out before I won.

Another thing that probably contributes as others mentioned here is the attitude between the AIs on the other continent. America and Russia naturally fight each other because they don't belong to the same global culture and they disapprove of each other's favored government which leads to mutual angry attitudes which I believe does have some influence on if and who the AI decides to attack. Of course there is Russia's aggression factor which makes them more hostile and more likely to attack, but in AU206, the ended up with weaker land and their hostility backfires.

Wycoff, if you didn't always take the Germans, I'm sure they would often be at war on the other continent and sometimes, like in one of my games, become the superpower (till you blow up their continent with nukes. )

[Spec]

Originally posted by CerberusIV


Not if you are on a continents map and one AI civ overruns the others before you get contact with that continent. It can be too late to do anything about it. Fortunately it doesn't happen too often.

Of course. I thought that would be obvious...

[CerberusIV]

So did I.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Spectator
Nope, I dont let it happen. When I see a civ that is getting to strong I declare war on them and have every civ close to the enemy ally with me to keep it at a normal size empire.
It always works.
Spec.

The thing is, the super AI is already at war with all other civs around it, and often with half of my continent as well. There is no one left to ally with that isn't already at war with the super AI civ. In my last game My continent had Mself(Germany), Russia, France, England, and Spain. The other continent had Persia, the Ottomans, and Babylon.

I had long ago conquered Russia and weakened England by the time I had made contact with the Persians. By the time that I did contact the Persians, around 1300 A.D., they had already conquered half of Turkey and Half of Babylon. Persia quickly made demands from Spain, France, and Myself, and was at war with all of us. The only civ that wasn't at war was England, which had two cities. I used this oppurtunity to take out France, which was now spread out,, and England, which was isolated. However, Persia steamrolled the remaining half of their continent while fighting off an invasion from Spain (the 3rd power in the world at the time behind Persia and myself) I didn't have a navy or forces capable to impede Persian expansion, and I wanted to consoldate my power on my continent while I still was pretty early in the game. By 1600 I had conquered France and England, and started to build up the infrastructure in my new territory. By this time the only civs left were Persia, Spain, and myself. Granted, Persia did dominate an entire continent, but Spain was immediately to my north and was the bigger threat. Spain and Persia were at war for hundreds of years, until the early 1800s when Spain atacked me. I wiped out the Spanish by the 1870s and got ready for the inevitable super power standoff.

In every game that I have a super AI, that AI is already at war with all of its neigbors, and seems to be able to defeat them with no problem. I can't really ally with anyone else, since they are already at war with the rest of the world and are doing just fine. That is why most of my games end with the Space Race.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by CerberusIV


Not if you are on a continents map and one AI civ overruns the others before you get contact with that continent... Fortunately it doesn't happen too often.

It seems to happen to me every game. I like it though, because then the AI can pose a more serious challenge, especially if it has a much larger land mass.

[Wycoff]

Look at my posts on the nuclear war thread to see pictures of the Persian continent and the German continent.