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*sniff sniff sniff sniff* Hmm, this thread reaks of DL/Troll. And shouldn't this thread be moved over to the OT thread now? 
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badams -
Epistemology -- the study of how we know anything -- long ago gave up trying to "prove" or "disprove" anything (part of the problem may be hinted at by Godel's theorem, that the elements of a set cannot, in themselves, fully define that set).
Generally -- simply -- the explanation ("theory") with the greatest heuristic power (i.e., that which explains the most phenomena under question) is taken to be "true". The only place "belief" enters in is whether or not a cogent argument can be made for or against data fitting within the given theoretical framework.
... Which means that evolution is "true". It is observed at work (famously, on micro-time levels -- years compared to eons) in the predominance of moth's wings' colors in polluted areas as well as the elongation and/or shortening of Gallapagos finchs' beaks.
Also, contrary to some common opinion, the geological record is chock-full of intermediary forms between "original" and "evolved" creatures. Sequence of these creatures' fossils is performed by carbon dating analysis etc. -- and (here I paraphrase) it's not as though there are two sets of the laws of physics. If you don't believe in carbon dating then you shouldn't believe that elevators work.
IIRC the state of Kansas recently -- and briefly -- made the teaching of the "theory" of evolution optional; early in the 20th century, the Kansas state legislature also legislated a finite number for pi.
-Oz... And on the pedestal these words appear: "My name is Ozymandias, king of kings: Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!" Nothing beside remains. Round the decay of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare, the lone and level sands stretch far away ...Comment
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Old Soviet Joke:Originally posted by Ozymandias
IIRC the state of Kansas recently -- and briefly -- made the teaching of the "theory" of evolution optional; early in the 20th century, the Kansas state legislature also legislated a finite number for pi.
-Oz
Comissar: What is 2+2?
Mathematician: What does the party need 2+2 to be, comrade?
I knew Georgia was in the Soviet Union, but Kansas too?
As for Bible-man up there:
-Deception is immoral. God is perfectly moral. Ergo, God is not a deceiver
-The fossil record supports evolution, but disproves creationism. So if evolution were false, God would be a deceiver because God falsified the fossil record. But God is not a deceiver. Ergo, creationism is false and the case for evolution is at least as strong as the support from the fossil record
So suck it!- "A picture may be worth a thousand words, but it still ain't a part number." - Ron Reynolds
- I went to Zanarkand, and all I got was this lousy aeon!
- "... over 10 members raised complaints about you... and jerk was one of the nicer things they called you" - MingComment
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If evolution is true, then why aren't we getting any smarter? 
"When we begin to regulate, there is naming,
but when there has been naming
we should also know when to stop.
Only by knowing when to stop can we avoid danger." - Lao-zi, the "Dao-de-jing"Comment
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... Because we aren't trying hard enough?Originally posted by Azeem
If evolution is true, then why aren't we getting any smarter?
... And on the pedestal these words appear: "My name is Ozymandias, king of kings: Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!" Nothing beside remains. Round the decay of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare, the lone and level sands stretch far away ...Comment
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Evolution does not select for smart, it selects for survivability. And those two are sometimes at odds ...Originally posted by Azeem
If evolution is true, then why aren't we getting any smarter?
- "A picture may be worth a thousand words, but it still ain't a part number." - Ron Reynolds
- I went to Zanarkand, and all I got was this lousy aeon!
- "... over 10 members raised complaints about you... and jerk was one of the nicer things they called you" - MingComment
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That's what I meant by "not trying hard enough" -- frontal lobes seem to metaphorically be the fly in evolution's ointment. Our self-interest is rarely enlightened; then again, perhaps if it was, then we would no longer be human as we understand the term ...Originally posted by The Templar
Evolution does not select for smart, it selects for survivability. And those two are sometimes at odds ...
Frontal lobes: blessing or curse?
-Oz... And on the pedestal these words appear: "My name is Ozymandias, king of kings: Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!" Nothing beside remains. Round the decay of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare, the lone and level sands stretch far away ...Comment
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Because we're incapable of being more than marginally self-aware hormone-driven apes.
Well, at least us guys
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Threadjack, plus
galore for all of those who know the meaning of that smiley."You're the biggest user of hindsight that I've ever known. Your favorite team, in any sport, is the one that just won. If you were a woman, you'd likely be a slut." - Slowwhand, to Imran
Eschewing silly games since December 4, 2005Comment
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Seems to me like everyone is assuming there are only two possiblities. Why do we have to pick one or the other? Is it so inconceivable that BOTH Creationism and Evolution could have happened?"Got the rock from Detroit, soul from Motown"
- Kid Rock "American Badass"Comment
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As stated -- yes, impossible. HOWEVER, I've always assumed that a Divine Plan (being Divine, vast beyond our comprehension, etc.) could be enacted any way the hypothetical Divinity chose, including starting with a Big Bang and letting self-awareness come along but slowly. How can this posssibily then diminish either this hypothetical Divinity or its spark of manifestation in each of us?Originally posted by MotownDennis
Seems to me like everyone is assuming there are only two possiblities. Why do we have to pick one or the other? Is it so inconceivable that BOTH Creationism and Evolution could have happened?
Cosmologically, Epistemologically, & Thread-Jackingly Yours,
Oz... And on the pedestal these words appear: "My name is Ozymandias, king of kings: Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!" Nothing beside remains. Round the decay of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare, the lone and level sands stretch far away ...Comment
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Yep, stick me in the Evolution camp, with the supposition that someone had to come along to make it all go Bang.
It's hard to believe the Fundies, because after so many flawed pseudo-scientific arguments, you tend to write them off as just another boy who cried 'Ape!'"If Lincoln were alive today, he'd probably want to get out of his tomb"
"He siezed power in a bloodless coup -- all smotherings."Comment
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Then tomorrow I start using the stairs.Originally posted by Ozymandias If you don't believe in carbon dating then you shouldn't believe that elevators work.Comment
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That's the spirit!Originally posted by BlueWaldo
Then tomorrow I start using the stairs.
And whoever said that religion halts the advance of progress...?Comment
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And whoever said that religion halts the advance of progress...?
It really depends on what religion. Some religions are suspicious of scientific learning (such as Medieval Christianity) while some embrace it (like Islam during the Middle Ages). Then there are some that are neither suspicious nor interested..."When we begin to regulate, there is naming,
but when there has been naming
we should also know when to stop.
Only by knowing when to stop can we avoid danger." - Lao-zi, the "Dao-de-jing"Comment
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