A few questions about OCC

[epics]

1) If I live throug the hole game with one city will I get some extra points for it or will it be some kind of victory?
2) If I have only coal in my city radius and iron a little furhter connected via road will I be able to build the Iron Works?
3) What country is the best for OCC?
4) What government is the best?
5) What Great Wonders do you go for?

[Dominae]

Re: A few questions about OCC

Originally posted by epics
1) If I live throug the hole game with one city will I get some extra points for it or will it be some kind of victory?

Even if you win, your score will surely be the lowest of the bunch. All you get from OCC is personal satisfaction, and/or recognition.

2) If I have only coal in my city radius and iron a little furhter connected via road will I be able to build the Iron Works?

No. Both Iron and Coal must be within the city radius.

3) What country is the best for OCC?

It depends (as always!). I like to think of the civs in terms of their traits, since UUs are unimportant in OCC. Scientific is the best, hands down. Militaristic and Commercial are the worst. Expansionist is good if you know you're on a Pangea-type world. Industrious and Religious are both ok, although I prefer the former.

4) What government is the best?

Republic and Democracy. Unless you're Religious, however, I see very little reason to go democratic.

5) What Great Wonders do you go for?

These I consider very important:

Colossus
Great Library
Copernicus's Observatory
Newton's University
Theory of Evolution

Note that, depending on which civ you pick, some Wonders are more important than others, since you'll want to trigger your GA with a Wonder instead of your UU. Thus, if you have time in the Modern age, you may even build the Internet, if you lost all previous GA opportunities.

Hope this helps.


Dominae

[epics]

Re: Re: A few questions about OCC

Originally posted by Dominae

No. Both Iron and Coal must be within the city radius.

So it's almost imposible to have Iron Works in OCC

depends (as always!). I like to think of the civs in terms of their traits, since UUs are unimportant in OCC. Scientific is the best, hands down. Militaristic and Commercial are the worst. Expansionist is good if you know you're on a Pangea-type world. Industrious and Religious are both ok, although I prefer the former.

Why Scientific?

Republic and Democracy. Unless you're Religious, however, I see very little reason to go democratic.

Why keeping out of democracy being Religious?

These I consider very important:

Colossus
Great Library
Copernicus's Observatory
Newton's University
Theory of Evolution

Why does everybody goeas for ToE? I don't like this wonder.

Hope this helps.


Dominae

Thx

[Dominae]

Re: Re: Re: A few questions about OCC

Originally posted by epics
So it's almost imposible to have Iron Works in OCC.

Yep. Only building one city does come with its disadvantages, and this is one of them.

Why Scientific?

The only thing that is really challenging in OCC is keeping in the tech race. Scientific makes task a lot easier.

Why keeping out of democracy being Religious?

Compare the differences between Republic and Democracy and you'll see that it is not usually worth the Anarchy.

Why does everybody goeas for ToE? I don't like this wonder.

If you get free techs from the Theory of Evolution that other civs do not have, you can sell them around for amazing sums. This ensures you position in the tech race, which, as I mentioned above, is basically all OCC is about.


Dominae

[Datajack Franit]

ToE boosts scientific research and avoids other getting it. I'd say the persians are the best to play with

[epics]

I'm absolutly against Indostrious. If you have only one city you don't have to have 'workers work faster', 'slower' workers will do the job just fine.

Oh, in that case ToE is quite good

Yes, not being Religious it's not realy worth it to go for democracy. Altgouhgt there is 150% workers effisency (spell?), but as I said: not very helpfull in OCC

[minke19104]

how the heck r u supposed to get any of the wonders, especially in the ancient age if you do not have more than 1 city (no palace prebuild). Also how do you make other civs not hate you to the point they just decide to attack ur civ. What difficulty level is this OCC game feasible? Do you mantain any army in OCC?

[Dominae]

epics, the Industrious trait is still quite useful in OCC. Your city grows quite fast when it does not produce Settlers, so getting all those tiles improved fast is important. Plus you can do stuff like create Colonies a lot faster. But clearly it is not extremely useful as it would be in a normal game. But then, what will you replace it with? Militaristic gives you a cheaper Harbor. Expansionist can be nice, but then you're probably tailoring your map to fit the traits you want (i.e. OCC on a Large Pangea map to make the best use of Expansionist). Still, contacting the other civs quickly is quite useful. I would rate Industrious and Expansionist equally high for OCC.

minke19104, OCC is definitely possible even up there on Deity. You have to try it out for yourself to be convinced. There are some threads here on 'Poly that can guide you though.


Dominae

[Nor Me]

Originally posted by Dominae
It depends (as always!). I like to think of the civs in terms of their traits, since UUs are unimportant in OCC. Scientific is the best, hands down. Militaristic and Commercial are the worst. Expansionist is good if you know you're on a Pangea-type world. Industrious and Religious are both ok, although I prefer the former.

I disagree. Half price improvements make little difference and Monotheism is often irrelevant if you have the Great Library and other scientific civs are doing well. At least before the PTW patch I haven't got, I don't find Scientific that useful.
OTOH Commercial gives you +2 commerce every turn as soon as you grow beyond size 6 and a starting tech on the way to literature. If you're lucky enough to get a river start, you'll grow to size 7 very soon.
Anarchy lasts less time if you have a small empire which counts against Religious. The Democratic switch is sometimes worth it just for faster railroading. But generally only if you have nothing to build. If you are Religious, switching the turn you get the advance will cost you no commerce. If you're Industrious and not Religious,
it's very unlikely to be worth it.
It's possible that an ancient GA will help you get the Great Library but a late as feasible GA is recommended. This means choosing a trait that is not shared by essential wonders. These are normally Industrious and Militaristic.
On a tiny map, archer rushing is feasible in OCC but otherwise it's not a good idea and Militaristic is almost useless.
This is why I prefer the French for OCC. But the Ottomans are Ok.

Originally posted by Dominae
since you'll want to trigger your GA with a Wonder instead of your UU.

I often trigger my GA with a UU. It may not be worth it having to build the Manhattan project or the Internet when a unit like the Siphae can kill modern age units eventually. I often have alliances or MPPs with neighboring civs in order to be less of a target. getting a few Siphae to a distant civ is often easier than building a useless1000 shield wonder.

Originally posted by minke19104
What difficulty level is this OCC game feasible?

For some reason, it almost seems to be a good strategy on Regent; I've never had any trouble. It's certainly feasible on Emperor but it's not easy. It's been done on Deity, just not by me nor will it be any time soon.
Map size has a large impact on the difficuly. On a smaller map it's generally easier for obvious reasons.

Originally posted by minke19104
Do you mantain any army in OCC?

It shouldn't be a priority. Often, I have 3 or 4 warriors for most of the ancient age. If you're actually involved in a war, a few troops are a good idea. I've had to repel 1 or 2 unit landings relatively frequently. I've built a few units to support a UU for GA timing before.

[Dominae]

Originally posted by Nor Me
Half price improvements make little difference

Although the effect is obviously not as big when you've only got 1 city, half cost improvements will usually take off quite a few turns (Libraries in 3 instead of 7, etc.). That's not a bad effect when what you really want to be focusing on is the Wonders.

and Monotheism is often irrelevant if you have the Great Library and other scientific civs are doing well.

True, the free Monotheism is not that great since you do want to be controlling the Great Library. This of course changes with the new patch, making Scientific that much better (in general and for OCC).

At least before the PTW patch I haven't got, I don't find Scientific that useful.

Well, you've got a point about Monotheism, but you're ignoring Nationalism and Rocketry. The fact that the AI pays big money for these is huge in OCC. Getting these first or second is one of my main goals in OCC. Once you're getting all the AI's gpt, you're set for the Space Race.

OTOH Commercial gives you +2 commerce every turn as soon as you grow beyond size 6 and a starting tech on the way to literature. If you're lucky enough to get a river start, you'll grow to size 7 very soon.

The extra Commerce is nice, but not hugely important. The race for the Great Library is more a race for Shields than for Literature. But there is something to be said for have Alphabet as a trade commodity. Still, I still doubt this replaces the Scientific trait.

It's possible that an ancient GA will help you get the Great Library but a late as feasible GA is recommended. This means choosing a trait that is not shared by essential wonders. These are normally Industrious and Militaristic.

A nice argument, but I'm not big on the conclusion. Most of the Wonders you will be going for are Scientific, and very few are Industrious. So Scientific/Industrious is quite a good combo. So is Scientific/Religious. The problem comes with Scientific/Commercial or Scientific/Expansionist, since each of these trigger an early Wonder (Colossus and Great Library, or Copernicus). But as you can see there are good options available for Scientific without having to resort to Militaristic. That one half-cost Harbor is a pretty weak advantage.

On a tiny map, archer rushing is feasible in OCC but otherwise it's not a good idea and Militaristic is almost useless.

I'm not sure why you want to Archer rush anyway; are you planning on winning an OCC by Conquest? I'm not considering those types of games.

I often trigger my GA with a UU. It may not be worth it having to build the Manhattan project or the Internet when a unit like the Siphae can kill modern age units eventually.

The problem with triggering with a UU is that you have to go to war. I consider this a bad thing to do in OCC. Ideally you want to for the other civs to be at war with each other, but Gracious toward you. Unless you're willing to spend a lot of resources on defense, your best plans will be ruined when the AI shows up with a couple of Tanks. It is much easier just to stay peaceful.

As an Industrious civ, you have the option of triggering your GA with the Hoover Dam, which comes at quite a good time: you do not have much to do production-wise before the Modern age.



Dominae

[Mad Bomber]

Dominae:


Your Wonder list is good but it limits you to a diplomatic or spaceship win. The easiest and quickest way's to win an OCC are to focus on the big cultural wonders to get your city to 20000 cp.

If you go the culture route you will need to add these three wonders to your list.

1) the pyramids- If you are industrious you can build these from the start and with 4cp it will be useful very early on, it also will grow to 8 cp/turn when it has been existed for 1000 yrs (best if built before 1500bc)

2) J.S. Bach's Cathedral- With 6 CP/turn this wonder is a virtual gold mine of culture when built early (hopefully before 750AD) this wonder rocks in OCC.

3) Shakespeares Theatre- Highest culture per turn in the game (8) its like having two Universities in the city!! If you can build it before 1050 AD this wonder will be providing 16 CP/turn before the game ends.

Looking at an OCC perspective the traits religious and scientific are the most useful followed by expansionist and industrious.

[minke19104]

Wont you be hard pressed for a Space ship win, if you have but 1 city and the rest have 5-6 of them??

And whats the point of having Hoover Dam and/or Pyramids if they can only help your 1 city?

[Mad Bomber]

minke:

You build the pyramids in OCC for the culture not the granary it would provide. I do not recommend building Hoover in an OCC. In the ancient world the Great Library is the best wonder, followed by the Pyramids (for the culture) and then the Colossus.

[pedrojedi]

Maybe the Hoover just to take out of the AI hands.

"That little city-estate has everything that is good! Pyramids, a nice theatre (a guy shakespierre or something built or acted in it), a big piano (Boch is its name?), and a big gigantic hydro plant d*mn!"

[Dominae]

Mad Bomber, you're right about Cultural versus Spaceship wins: your Wonder and improvement choices can be quite different depending on your overall goal. I restrict myself to Spaceship wins exclusively when playing OCC, because 1) that's what was required in Civ2 (not really a good reason), and 2) I find Cultural wins quite easy and rather boring (a very good reason). Winning culturally involves getting the AI not to attack you, and trying to orchestrate things so that one civ does not get too powerful. Building the spaceship requires a lot more challenge come the Modern age.

I mentioned the Hoover Dam above not because its effect is all that useful, but rather in the context of wanting to trigger a late GA as an Industrious civ. It comes at a time where you do not have much to build, and it usually triggers a GA on or around the beginning of the Modern age.


Dominae