Civ3 editing tools: what do *you* want to see

[Phil_E]

Look at starcraft's editor and copy it, then look at the editors made by non-Blizzard people (StarDraft and StarGraft) and copy them. Starcaft has the best editor out there, end of story, so get rid of the ****house civ2 editor and make an entirely seperate program and spend time making it good. Even though without the editor Starcraft still owns, the editor has added immensley to the longetivity and expanded on it's gameplay, with tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands (if not millions :P) of maps been made, many which are extremely fun to play, and hundreds of quality campaigns (antioch chronicles, legacy of the confederation, celestial irruption to name but a few are absolutely amazing, and extremely professional pieces of work). For me, the civ2 editor was the biggest letdown of the game that had me addicted so mimick starcraft's editor and you'll have one (well probably lots :P) happy gamer (as long as the game is any good as well of course :P)

[Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto]

Well well, i see that FINALLY someone from firaxis itself has finally asked us civ fans what we want (unless its just that I've only been here since september).

I'll make my answer plain and simple: I want an in-game editer that you can use to edit ANYTHING. and also improve the map-editor, I want to be able to fully create my own map, where certain cities will go, i want to be able to place farm-land, irigation, mining, etc., in the map-editor itself.

[Pyrodrew]

MOST IMPORTANT in order
=======================

1> Include more OPTIONS besides the "historical" view(such as Fantasy & Sci-Fi) in basic random map games. Sci-fi & Fantasy should NOT be limited to only scenarios.

2> Percentage Random Map Generator. In Heroes of Might&Magic2... you could give PERCENTAGES to each terrain on a random map: 60%ice, 10%swamp, 10%grass, 10%water, etc. They extended this % further for random artifacts, treasures, & monsters... SWEET.

3> Being able to customize the enemy AI in detail... diplomacy, economics, combat, etc. with a random option for anything of course.

4> An option to include more random events: Earthquakes, Tornados, Meteors, Hurricanes, Volcanos, etc. with their danger on a random scale of 1 to 10.

5> Different Game Options: King of the Hill, Capture the Flag, Classic, etc. would be nice.

6> Terrain Options: let the player decide if grapes can be found in any terrain, or only hills, or whatever.

7> The Wonder Movies & Heralds would be nice to see again too.

I strongly agree with Shadowstrike... the more options the better.

[N35t0r]

just crossed my mind:

when editing city sizes, you currently have to calculate the pop. of each area to get it's size equivalent (i do so, anyway). It'd be great to be able to change the # of people cities have (eg, changing that 10,000 people size 1 cities have).

Also, enter the pop. in # to the city-modification screen, and the size is automatically worked out.

Ok, i don't know if i made myself clear. I just wrote as it came out.

[Whitemage]

I have never played ToT, but I think a multiple-map feature is a must!

On graphics: I’m no programmer, but I was wondering if you could have the option on
how we make the units(2-D as per Civ2, or 3-D/moving as with ToT and CtP, I believe)
In individual scenarios( or even units!), the author could make beautiful, flowing graphics that take a million hours to make, or use Civ2 still graphics if he had other things in his life
Basically, I am terrible at making graphics, so there should be some way of allowing simpler ones.

You should also make it so only a certain civ( or group of civs) can make a certain Wonder/improvement/ get certain tech.

All of the above are must-haves.
Basically if you would feel comfortable making scenarios that are really bizarre or have odd victory conditions , you’re on the right track.

[Crustacian]

In case it has not been mentioned, I would like to see the ability to start a game without any 2 human civs being right next to each other and be a bit spread out so one does not have to die

also to be able to have your own form of govt names, and city names pre ready to use at the click of a switch instead of renaming them each time.

*****And to have you guys add as an option into the game the old music from civ 1 especially the tunes from German's & English. <----I loved those tunes.

[Snapcase on Snapcase]

Okay, my top 5s (just to be different from Shadowstrike, whose lists are excellent. But you do need variety...) I've divided it up into four sections, the first one essentially the GUI portion of the old editor, #2 the Cheat Menu, #3 the Scenario Menu and text files, and #4 The Macro Language.

Map and Scenario GUI Editor:

1. A stand-alone application for everything. Not just the maps, but all of them.
2. A good amount of paint-like features, including but not limited to fill, lines, shapes (boxes, ellipses...)
3. Full drag and drop of cities and units, form a conveniently located floating window or sidebar.
4. Copy and Paste, including drag and select, CTRL select, drag selection to move, CTRL-drag selection to copy, etc.
5. Export and import of bitmaps for terrain.

Victory condition and scenario rules editors:

1. Greater integration with Macro Language, Rules and objectives changeable on the fly and during a game.
2. A clear, unified, easy-to-follow way of setting victory conditions, in which you pick them off a list and/or define them as Macro Language parameters.
3. More varied victory conditions than just conquer xxx, bring xxx to xxx, don't let xxx die and all the normal ones.
4. More definable personalities and attributes of the civs in the game. Make them love or hate, distrust or trust each other.
5. Allow the user to experiment with setting up rules in a strange way, wilth thousands of turns if they want to.

Rules and graphics editors:

1. Editing of all in-game objects, including Wonders and Improvements, Special Abilities or limitations, etc.
2. Limitless city names, technologies, units, terrains, etc.
3. Allow more than a set palette for units and terrain.
4. Dealignment of special abilities from techs and units, allowing you to set which units become barbarians and which techs let engineers use the change terrain command, etc.
5. Visual and text-based representation of the tech tree, the unit charts, etc.

Macro editor:

1. More versatile operations including non-conditionals such as loops, mathematical operations, user input, and so on.
2. More commands, variables or flags, etc.
3. More input options, more triggering conditions.
4. Full integration with all other parts of the game, so that you can do things like modify the rules or attributes while the game progresses.
5. A nice, line-based GUI.

[Grrr]

My desired WWII scenario:

Should be on a massive map of at least 10000x7500 tiles, but the more the better. I should be able to have unlimited cities, as I would model every city possible. Unlimited Civs, as I would need to recreate the whole world. (This would equate to at least 100, but more likely about 250). Unlimited units, as I would like to create all units as they were at a certain date/time. This should be in total number, but also in differnt units, I want to be able to fight a Messersmidt, against a Zero, as historically accurate as possible. The scale for strength, etc should be unlimited, as I should be able to build units which are extremely similar, yet slightly stronger or weaker than one another (1-2%). Adjustable citizens per city (eg 1 citizen=10000pop, or 1 citizen=100pop). I should be able to deny cities to build certain things, even if possible in normal civ. I should be able to have adjustable durations of turns, as if I would want to make a historically accurate scenario, I want to be able to make the turns last 1 minute, or 1 millenium, however I wish. I should also be able to give differnt civs different tech trees. There should be an ability to build a differnt tech tree for each civ. I should be able to make a tech tree with at least 1,000 techs in it, all of which can hold at least 10 items. I should be able to give individual units names, eg USS ENTERPRISE, and name places on the map. I should be able to trigger any situation, eg: 'If Zero {name: Hashimoto} gets shot down by Cruiser {name: Philadelphia} then Civ {name: Japan} will send Zero {name: Takahashi} out to do function {name: Kamikaze, function: sacrifice unit, deals 156 damage} on the Cruiser {name: Washington}'. In this way I should be able to control exactly what the AI does, and not the Civ engine. I should be able to pre-program diplomacy, eg: 'If Civ {name: Britain} is at war with Civ {name: America} then Civ {name: Japan} will offer a treaty {name: Peace} to Civ {name Australia} in exchange for units {name: Holden Tanks, quantity: 650}'. In this way I would like to be able to trigger the slightest events. I want to be able to recreate everything in historical accuracy. I also want to build my own city improvements, eg '{name: Lancaster Bomber Factory, cost: 9600 Production, image: Lancast.bmp, Lancast.jpg, requires: Advanced Bombing, special: Can only be built by Civ {name: Britain, Canada}}'. I want to make this scenario in reality, to be the best WWII scenario in history, and it should not take more than 65 million characters / clicks to produce(about 1 year, of solid 24 hour work). I want to be able to save the entire scenario on a 2 gig Jaz disk, and should be able to play directly off the Jaz, rather than needing the CD(or whatever you are releasing Civ III on) and the Jaz. I don't believe in typing and mousing. The main programing should use one, or the other, but NOT both!I want to be able to print of every tech tree, and give people popups of historical information at certain trigger points, eg the invention of the Nuclear Bomb. I want to be able to set ANY winning perameters that I can think of, including things such as 'Expunge Hitler's Military Might', 'Generate World Peace'. I should be able to make certain missions eg 'Take Control of London'. All such things should be possible. I should also be able to play on ONE computer, as all the civilizations, to test if the scenario works as it should. Just so you know, I actually prefer the text method of controls in a scenario, as I exampled above. Keep all scenario stuff in Windows, to make it easier to work with.
MAKE ALL FILES NORMAL WINDOWS FILES(.BMP, .JPG, .TXT, .HTML, .ZIP, .ICO, .DOC, .MP3, .WAV, .MID, .ANI, .MPG, etc)!!!

The actual scenario program should give the player access to all files, and should save all changes in a ZIP file with the Scenario's name. One of these should be included, for the original game. This is a bit like Andrew livings concept of the game being just one scenario of which many can be added.

I would like to see myself making the above, outlined scenario in the near future. However this will only occur if the programming would be as easy as I demonstrated in my own example of how I would like to see the editor.

I think two editors should be available. The first would be a Civ II style one, in which minor changes can be made, for the average user, this may even be in-game, I don't care. The second would be a full program, in which the entire game is copied, and can be fully edited, until no trace of the original game can be found again.

Thankyou Firaxis (If you read this essay),

-Grrr!!, Grrr@Britannica.com

[Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto]

I would like to add on what I said earlier:

1. two words: Complete Customization.

2. unlimited units (or at least a minimum of 150).

3. unlimited map design, be able to choose ANY size of map.

4. a much easier editor for all the editors, it takes me about 5 minutes just to edit one unit.

5. be able to choose from a HUGE list of sounds for units.

well, thats all I can think of at the moment.

p.s. hope I didnt say anything I said earlier in the thread.

[ChrisShaffer]

Editable AI.

Need I say more?

[Depp]

Look to CTP 2 and then make an editor for all the txt files and AI. That would be awesome...

[Civ2Veteran]

Dan, thanks for the opportunity to give you our input.

"Must Have" section.

Concerning Civ3 map editing, these are some things that I think would be particularly useful in a Civ3 map editor:


1) Allowing the Special Resource squares and "goody hut" squares to be completely editable with regard to the location of the squares and the number of the squares on the map. The Civ2 map editor limits us to 64 predetermined "resource seed number" locations and does not allow us to put the special resources or goody huts anywhere else. This is very frustrating at times, especially if we want to create a special scenario map with our own special resource locations.

Every time I talked to Microprose about this, they were always dead set aginst allowing us to do this, and never had any good reason as to why they were stonewalling us on this issue. It can't be all that difficult to allow it. I've never talked to a Civ2 player who said that this was a terrible idea, and in fact, everyone I talked to about it ALWAYS thought it was a good idea. I just don't understand why microprose was so opposed to the idea.

To sum this up, I am saying "Let us put special resources and goody huts on the map anywhere WE want to and don't put any of your own limitations on OUR ability to do so, and allow us to put as many of them on the map as WE want to". Don't limit us here anymore.


2) Change the random map generator in the map editor to save us a lot of TIME in map customization.

Let me explain. In Civ2, when we generate a random map with the map editor, it usually requires a lot of changes in order to be the type of map we want to play a game on, and it can take a long time to tweak it one square at a time enough to satisfy our needs for a particular game we want to play (changing more than one square at a time is cumbersome because it usually clumps too much similar terrain together). This can be simplified by allowing us to "program" the way a random map is generated in a more specific way than is currently allowed in Civ2.

Allow us to select not just the paramaters currently available in the Civ2 map editor random map generator, but also how many continents/islands should be on the map, and what size, in total number of land squares each continent/island should be. Also included in the continents/islands section should be the option to specify how many special resources should be randomly distributed on each continent/island, how many river squares should be on each continent/island and how many of each type of terrain square would be randomly distributed on each continent/island. I don't care what method you use to allow us to do this, I just want to be able to do it QUICKLY and EASILY. I'm quite sure that it can't be that difficult for you to allow us to have these options - this map editor would not be nearly as complicated as the code of the actual game program.

Allowing us to do these things would save us a huge amount of TIME in generating many specific styles of random maps to play on. I would pay extra $money$ to be able to do these things.


3) Make the editing of maps much easier by making it easy to edit them much more quickly than we currently can. It is very tedious in Civ2.


"Would Be Nice" section.


1) Allow us to specify with the map editor whether a goody hut would have a random event come out of it, or whether some specific event, like an advanced tribe, random technology, barbarians, wandering nomads, money, or military units would be the result of entering it. This would allow us to create maps that would have some predetermined rewards/surprises/disasters in them.


2) Provide for an additional twist on special resource squares by causing some special resources to not show up (remain hidden) in a terrain in which they are present until the terrain is terraformed in some way, whether it is by mining hills/mountains/desert, having a settler mine grassland/jungle/plains/swamp to turn them into forest, or by having an engineer transform the terrain with the "O" command. There was an element of this in "Sid Meier's Colonization", and it made things more interesting/unpredictable.


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[St Leo]

-Map Editor that can import and export both greyscale and colour NOAA elevation files (besides, you guys can whip up a world map in under an hour if you code that)
-One click city placement with prespecified size, improvements, objectives, etc.
-event based switching of text files used for game purposes
-PaintShop/PhotoShop/whatever editable graphics
-text files
-text files
-text files

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St. Leo
http://www.sidgames.com/hosted/ziggurat/
http://www.sidgames.com/forums/

[Crustacian]

Can you make it so scenario stuff is seperate from cheat menu's? Could cheat menu be limited solely to play against the AI even if you have to have seperate disk for MP play so an MP game hopefully can't get modifyed in cheat menu, or peeked at?

[Sir Shiva]

Hoo boy would I love to play Grrr's WWII scenario.

Snapcases ideas are pretty good. I would like to see a menu in the editor which brings up all the units/techs/civs/cities/pics etc. for easy GUI editing, so that we don't need to mess about in the text files. Personally, I like text files but this would make it alot easier. Also, with this GUI editor you could edit several connected things together, so you don't need to be hopping back and forth in the text files...

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-Shiva
Email: shiva@shivamail.com
Web: http://www.shivamail.com
ICQ: 17719980