Colonies: strong and weak point

[Ralf]

quote: Originally posted by dennis_caver on 05-15-2001 02:34 PM You know, fixing ICS is really a false issue. If everyone is doing ICS then it is automately fixed.

This is the first time I stumbled into someone who truly and openheartedly embraces the ICS-problem as something nice and positive.

My viewpoint? Well, erasing ICS was a top priority. I hope (and I believe) that the team now have succeeded in methodically squashing even the slightest possibility of it to ever rear its ugly head back-and-forth again.

[Grumbold]

It sounds like you are going to really want to connect your cities together by road and to exploit at least one tile of each luxury special and later iron. That is a significant amount of extra road building at game start and the removal of a few population points in colonies too. With the double cost of a settler it has to help discourage ICS even if it does not remove the incentive to expand as rapidly as possible. Once we see the actual costs the statistically minded can analyse them in detail.

[MrFun]

I have one thought. In the previous Civilization games, many of us built roads everywhere because it gave a bonus in trade. We did the same with railroads.

Now, because we need roads to resources that we wish to exploit, we will have to continue building roads in too many places. We'll have networks of meandering roads with dead ends.

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Never submit to social double standards.

[ChrisShaffer]

quote: I'm a little afraid that propably we are not gonna make a lot of colonies because surely we will place our cities in the neighbourhood of those valuable resources.

Yes, but if it takes building a temple and a library and waiting 50+ turns for your culture borders to expand to encompass the special resource (which is inside your city radius but outside your culture border), and you could build a worker for 20 (???) shields and 1 population point and claim access to the Iron Resource in 5 or 10 turns....

A lot depends on how much Workers actually cost to build, but I don't think you'll get very far without using at least a few colonies.

[SerapisIV]

If you look at the screenshots, the resources are just about everywhere, much more dense then in any previous Civ game, so optimum building site still wouldn't get every resource. Combine that with the ICS limiting 2pop settlers and 1pop workers and it's tough to get everything you need without colonies, or at least that is how it appears.

[Adm.Naismith]

quote: Originally posted by MrFun on 05-15-2001 06:27 PM Now, because we need roads to resources that we wish to exploit, we will have to continue building roads in too many places. We'll have networks of meandering roads with dead ends.

Considering how strategical is to cut roads between colonies and cities (and if I understand right, connecting them to the Capital City), I think that we can have pillaging taking care of extra roads pretty well

At least roads gain a scope, added to previus "fast troops movement" path.

[Rainbow_warrioR]

Could someone please tell me (newbie) what is ICS is?

[Adm.Naismith]

I can do a better hint:
click to this thread link to jump to the "Related Threads (ver.II)" link collection (always sticked up first places in this Civ III forum).

There you can find (down under City title). Browse until you find ICS explained.

In short, is a tactic useful in Civ II to maximize a Civ early production building lots of size 1 cities. It kill the game, hence lot of player complained and asked for a solution.

Hope it helps

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A weapon is a device for making your enemy change his mind. The mind was the first and final battleground, the stuff in between was just noise.
- Admiral Naismith
[This message has been edited by Adm.Naismith (edited May 16, 2001).]

[dennis_caver]

It did not kill the game, it enhanced the beginning game. It enhanced the
play-ability on both the warmonger and the peaceful Civ builder sides.
Get ready to push the 'next turn' button - exciting!

Cavin forever,

Dennis

[beyowulf]

quote: Originally posted by Rainbow_warrioR on 05-16-2001 09:33 AM Could someone please tell me (newbie) what is ICS is?

Infinite City Sprawl - A tactic in where one built a lot of cities so as to get lots resources, science, luxuries, etc.

[Ralf]

quote: Originally posted by beyowulf on 05-17-2001 01:03 AM Infinite City Sprawl - A tactic in where one built a lot of cities so as to get lots resources, science, luxuries, etc.

Also: One 10-pop city produced city-square + 10 surrounding squares = 11, while ten 1-pop cities produced city-square + 1 surrounding square = 2 x 10 cities = 20 producing squares. And with no counter-acting anti-ICS measures & features to deal with this effect.

The latter was the main problem with ICS. Founding buckloads of densely packed, but weakely developed cities was too rewarding. Also semi-ICS in early eras; producing mostly settlers, settlers and nothing but settlers until you got at least 15-25 founded cities - THEN you started to road-connect them and build some city-improvements. Historically unrealistic way to progress the empire-development.

[This message has been edited by Ralf (edited May 19, 2001).]

[Adm.Naismith]

quote: Originally posted by Ralf on 05-17-2001 01:17 AM (...) producing mostly settlers, settlers and nothing but settlers until you got at least 15-25 founded cities - THEN you started to road-connect them and build some city-improvements. Historically unrealistic way to progress the empire-development.

Right! And it's with my pleasure it seems Firaxis really correct this with Civ III culture (cities needs improvement to have culture and borders) and roads are necessary to exploit special resources ant to develop trade.

I was very angry, when early news about cost of population for settlers and workers seemed the only corrective Firaxis would take.
I proved wrong, and all the Team gain my apologies about that. I hope they accept them

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A weapon is a device for making your enemy change his mind. The mind was the first and final battleground, the stuff in between was just noise.
- Admiral Naismith

[Urban Ranger]

"A weapon is a device for making your enemy change his mind. The mind was the first and final battleground, the stuff in between was just noise.

It seems to be that if you can cut your enemy's head off, there's no need to change his mind since you have wiped his battleground clean.

But I digress

[Ralf]

Arrrgh! Not again - doublepost.
[This message has been edited by Ralf (edited May 19, 2001).]

[Nikolai]

quote: Originally posted by Ralf on 05-19-2001 04:38 AM Arrrgh! Not again - doublepost. [This message has been edited by Ralf (edited May 19, 2001).]

Dublepost...and only ONE post! Where is the other one?
(couldn't resist! )

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Who am I? What am I? Do we need Civ? Well....