The Camel is Dead!

[Father Beast]

from the gamespot preview

quote: Firaxis is focusing much of its efforts on creating a more dynamic and entertaining trade system than the one found in previous games. "Trade was really abstract in the two [previous Civilization] games," Briggs said. "You would build caravans and move them yourself from city to city, moving them in the right place. I thought that was cumbersome." To change all of that, Firaxis is implementing two types of resources--luxury items and strategic resources--and depending on your strategy, you will want to make a concerted effort to control as many resources as possible. If you don't control as many valuable resources as other civilizations do, then you can either take the resources by force or establish strong trade relations.

this seems to mean that they won't be using camels, and the corresponing trade bonuses (matthew's infamous 1000 gold and science bonus) are probably history, too.

This system will probably be interesting, but I can't help but feel a sense of loss.

It was the trade routes that I would set up that I loved so much. the AC version never turned me on. it was kind of like the MoO version - just turn it on and watch your funds increase. hopefully this will be more interesting.

[ancient]

so you mean they will trade with out camels? how will the goods get from one place to another?
[This message has been edited by ancient (edited May 16, 2001).]

[BeBMan]

quote: so you mean they will trade with out camels? how will the goods get from one place to another?

Horses? Trains? Ships? Cargoplanes?

Hey, I can live without the good old camel. Let´s face it, it was not very wise in civ2 that all nations, american, european, whatever had camels as traders!


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[Father Beast]

I get the feeling that it will be some sort of negotiations between civs.
since it depends on what resources are connected to your Capitol, I guess you would make trade agreements with a neighboring civ for useful items

such as:
"we see that your civilization, although nearly insignificant, may be of some use to us in supplying us with silk. We are prepared to trade horses with you in exchange"

Agreed. let's make this trade agreement.
No way, we don't need your useless horses.
We would prefer you to supply us with Iron


That's what I'm currently envisioning. it seems to make sense, since they have indicated that any cities connected to one with a special resource will have access to it. so I suppose that if you make a trade agreement, all your connected cities could take advantage of it.

[ancient]

but camels are cool..

[BeBMan]

quote: but camels are cool..

Real Camels. But to be serious I didn´t like the trade system in civ2, it was a bit boring to move all these slow camels around. Father´s idea sounds not bad to me.

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Civ2000 hosted by CivII Universum
[This message has been edited by BeBro (edited May 16, 2001).]

[raingoon]

True, it would seem that "connectivity" is the key word now, and the physical action required is building the road.

In a sense this new way is wiser because road-building IS trade route building; but I confess to being one of those who spent many a Civ 2 game doing little else but happily moving my camels around the map setting up trade routes. I can envision enjoying building roads, etc., if the emphasis is on clarity and functionality, which are VERY different from simply being "hassle-free" (see CTP).

Hassle-free I don't need; direct control over imagining and creating my trade empire, YES, and to that end I must say I'm encouraged...

[Adm.Naismith]

May the Camel rest in peace. Amen.
I never loved that loooong voyage till a distant city, just in time to discover they don't need my goods anymore, nor I liked to forget where the beast was going, if anything stopped it mid voyage.

I agree, SMAC was too much automated, not funny. It seems Firaxis is doing better this time.

[Ralf]

quote: Originally posted by Adm.Naismith on 05-16-2001 05:33 PM May the Camel rest in peace. Amen. I never loved that loooong voyage till a distant city, just in time to discover they don't need my goods anymore, nor I liked to forget where the beast was going, if anything stopped it mid voyage. I agree, SMAC was too much automated, not funny. It seems Firaxis is doing better this time.

I copycat above. Feel exactly the same about this issue. Bury that animal, thats what I say.

[Bereta_Eder]

Don't know. I kinda loved the incertainty of the long voyage, the protection it required, the planning. The rush of making it to the city and get the gold and science was pretty good too.

[Chronus]

"I kinda loved the incertainty of the long voyage, the protection it required, the planning. The rush of making it to the city and get the gold and science was pretty good too."

I agree. I'll miss the camel (and truck) as well.

[me_irate]

I personally invision a need for caravans to trade. I see three basic ways caravans (and possibly tradeships) could possibly still be implemented with this new system.

1.as in ctp you wont acctualy move them but you might need so many to make a trade route. and once it is established with a certain civ you can trade as much as you want.

2. (still using the unseen units) or you might need so many caravans for each trade route no matter how many routes allready excist between you and the civ.

3. finally you might need to move a caravan to establish a trade route with the civ, but once it is established, you can trade whatever you want.

but then again they might do away with caravans completely.

[DarkCloud]

They should implement trade by using a "Trade Screen" where your diplomats can trade for better rates based on your congeniality rating with the enemy nations.

[SerapisIV]

I want a minigame shoot-the-camel, for me it would be just as fun as the earlier discussed shoot-the-herald. After Civ3 comes out and you guys have a break at Firaxis, would someone please design these games for the more vicious of your Civ followers?

[Youngsun]

Trade between civs should be done/managed by trade agreements and constructing the right infras.

Once trade agreement is made, trade route can be established. Then you assign your caravans(if the route is land based)or merchant ships(if the route is water based)to the specific trade routes.


Athens(Greek)<--------------------------->Alexandria(Egyptian)
25 merchant ships assigned

Corinth(Greek)<-------------------------->Crete(Cretan)
18 merchant ships assigned


Athens(Greek)<-------------------------->Ukraine(minor civ/tribes?)
20 caravans assigned

You don't have to move each merchant ship or caravan but those ships and caravans are simply shown in your civ's trade capacity pool.