Zones of Control

[colossus]

As Civ is not a wargame, we may drop ZOC and the game is perfectly OK. Afterall, even a single tile in a 10000 square world is still an area too large for any units to exert ZOC.

But if we want to incorprate ZOC, we have to face the impossible task of allowing a horseman to face a tank. If we allow the horseman's ZOC to stop a tank, the rules will be simple but do not make sense. Conversely, rules allowing for MP differnece, FP, HP and age(modern units vs medieval ones) would be more realistic but inelegant.

As a compromise, I suggest ZOC to inflict damage. This is resonably simple and realistic. The amount of damage done should be related to strengths of advancer and defender, as well as corresponding HP and FP. Thus should be similar to combat damage although the combat is not foght to the death.

[Guest]

quote: Originally posted by airdrik on 05-02-2001 12:04 PM I don't think that is the horseman's zone of control, but rather his visual radius. My hope is NOT that ZOC's are based on movement, but on mobility, because it is not likely that a horseman has the same ZOC as a cavalry, and likewise a warriors the same as a marine. I would at least hope for another unit stat: mobility, which determines that unit's ZOC. If not that, then have their ZOC based on defence as well as movement (ie. based on def*movement, or (def^2)*movement), that way ZOC's aren't entirely determined by movement.

It is certainaly not his range of vision, there are two units, of the same type, each is one "unit" away from the horseman, yet one is clearly inside the red circle while the other is out of it (or at best on the line itself.) This would indicate that it is not his range of vision since both should be the same distance within the circle. What it could be, I'm not sure, too many things that might be in the game have not been revealed to us yet. Of course I'm relying on what I see in the picture. If you're going to say something about the angle of the picture as far as to what lies within the circle, then Firaxis has a lot of work to do, because that picture shows what I've stated.

[Grumbold]

quote: Originally posted by colossus on 05-17-2001 11:16 PM But if we want to incorprate ZOC, we have to face the impossible task of allowing a horseman to face a tank. If we allow the horseman's ZOC to stop a tank, the rules will be simple but do not make sense. Conversely, rules allowing for MP differnece, FP, HP and age(modern units vs medieval ones) would be more realistic but inelegant. As a compromise, I suggest ZOC to inflict damage. This is resonably simple and realistic. The amount of damage done should be related to strengths of advancer and defender, as well as corresponding HP and FP. Thus should be similar to combat damage although the combat is not fought to the death.

Dealing damage relative to the combat strengths of the units involved is going against the point of a ZoC. To repeat myself: ZOC have never been about the ability of a unit to seriously challenge the enemy in a stand up fight where both parties are prepared for battle. It is about the capacity of the enemy to lay ambushes, destroy supplies, mine roads and pull night raids. A tank regiment with all its troops asleep in their tents is just as vulnerable as a Roman cohort to a sneak attack. The unit exerting a ZoC could be completely incapable of hurting the attacker under normal conditions. Just knowing the enemy is "nearby" causes a competent commander to slow down, ensure a significant proportion of the troops are combat ready and alert and send out more scouting patrols or set more night time pickets.

Lightly armed guerrillas have shown time and again in this century just how effective they can be against even the best equipped modern troops provided they avoid a pitched battle. That is why I believe that the damage option, which is a nice simple way of replacing a movement blocking ZoC, should be a straight percentage dealt to the moving unit, not factored by the normal combat ratings of the units. If the attacker wanted to fight it should be attacking the defender, not bypassing it within its ZoC.