"Civilization III is a Role Playing Game"

[Master Zen]

Traelin:

I think you would agree in that I find most people who want to ban things are people who are hiding something... like bad parenting leading to prohibiting the kid from everything instead of giving him a good education on what is right and what is wrong.

[Alex]

Without evolution we are lost, our economic system is based on competitive evolutionary principles

Nonsense. Capitalism ("our economic system" as you put it) has its roots back in the 14th and 15th centuries, as per development of mercantilism, way before Darwin came up with evolution... As cyclotron7 said, do not mix Social Darwinism with evolution, they're different things.

Good and bad become arguable seeing some animal's behaviors, like those dolphins or chimpanzes. They seemed for many years "good" creatures, but recent field researching found disturbing acts of cruelty made by those two specimens.

Nonsense again. Cruelty is a moral concept created by men to assess other men's actions. If you try to apply it to animal behavior, that is your interpretation. The animals themselves do not have conscience of right and wrong, at least as far as we know.

[pedrojedi]

Nonsense again. Cruelty is a moral concept created by men to assess other men's actions. If you try to apply it to animal behavior, that is your interpretation. The animals themselves do not have conscience of right and wrong, at least as far as we know.

That's right, they don't have any consciousness to make such decisions. But using it to set a rift between humans ("superiors") and animals ("inferiors"?) does not seem appropriate. A concenpt doesn't make a species totally different, since it's linked to a human-created pattern.

Also, it's nice to know what's good or bad, but I think it's kinda an "unevolition" ("devolution"?) when you use it only to make the bad choices.

Animals like those I quoted were traditionally used as examples of how less aggressive human nature should be, and examples of good nature relations between species. Well, even being a human concept, those dolphins can be pretty mean!

The argument was used not to say animals are cruel or can choose between bad or good stuff, but because there is a very close (I'd say too close) resemblance between them and us, when it comes to "regrettable" attittudes and behavior.

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by cyclotron7


He probably would have been horrified. It's a very unscientific interpretation of his theory.

No probability about it Social Darwinism came out less than 5 years after Darwin pubished his work on evolution. He stated numerous times that Social Darwinism was revolting to him. It is a shame that we tie his name to such a dispicable idea. Also, it should be noted that he NEVER used the phrase "survival of the fitist" in his works on evolution.

[Ripley1001]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Alexnm


Nonsense. Capitalism ("our economic system" as you put it) has its roots back in the 14th and 15th centuries, as per development of mercantilism, way before Darwin came up with evolution...

Who said anything about roots. The origin of capitalism has nothing to do with evolution.

I have observed the essential similarity between some evolutionary concepts and the economic system. Ever heard the phrase "adapt and survive", applied in an industrial context.

Maybe I`m the only one - but at school we were taught evolution first, when economics came along I already understood some of the basic concepts of competitive economics through my understanding of evolution. Maybe not everyone makes the connection?

[Master Zen]

Survival in nature is a question of life and death. You cannot make a similar comparison with industrial economics.

[Asmodeus]

Since we are comparing elements of CivIII with the real world around us....

I find it a great pity that no one is attempting a Space Ship victory. Quite the opposite in fact, the tragedy of Columbia exploding and the Bush 'War Because I've Already Promiced It' has meant financial assistance to the Russian half of the project has been axed and as the other shuttles are grounded, the whole International Space Station project may be abandoned.
And with it any hope of manned expeditions beyond orbit for many decades to come - that is unless the likes of China/India/Japan can foot the bill for such an ambitious project and create their own one.

It seems the only people smiling in this new millenium are the likes of Lockheed and Esso - and whether you are religeous, athiest, creationist or darwinist - I think we can all agree that it speaks volumes about 'how much we have evolved'.

I myself dont believe in god but i do have my own code of morality which on the whole i think makes me a decent human being. One of the things I love most about CivIII is that gives me a chance to dream that there is a better way for us to resolve world problems to work together on great projects and even give assistance (without a price label) to our fellow neighbours.

As you can probably tell I'm not much a fan of the Conquest victory (despite being a Brit ). I have achieved it in the past - but what I found was a world that resembled a bombed-out ruin and the vast majority of the people bitterly unhappy - some victory

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Asmodeus

I myself dont believe in god but i do have my own code of morality which on the whole i think makes me a decent human being. One of the things I love most about CivIII is that gives me a chance to dream that there is a better way for us to resolve world problems to work together on great projects and even give assistance (without a price label) to our fellow neighbours.

Like knight-rushing them!!!

As you can probably tell I'm not much a fan of the Conquest victory (despite being a Brit ). I have achieved it in the past - but what I found was a world that resembled a bombed-out ruin and the vast majority of the people bitterly unhappy - some victory

just move the luxury slider and they'll love ya! It's a good thing you can't do that in real life or Bush would have already conquered the Middle East.

Personally I think that most people have a primordial instinct to conquer pillage and rape. Hopefully Civ3 satisfies this disire instead of ending up doing in real life like Dubya. Someone should send him a copy...

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Originally posted by Master Zen

Personally I think that most people have a primordial instinct to conquer pillage and rape. Hopefully Civ3 satisfies this disire instead of ending up doing in real life like Dubya. Someone should send him a copy...

"What's with this Settler unit anyways, ****? What does it do?"

"The Settler's worthless, George. Just build a barracks."

"Hey, that's an arab scout ****! Can I kill it?"

"Yep George, just build that barracks and head straight for iron working. Will get those bastards before they even have a chance to BUILD Baghdad..."

"Wow, ****, this game rocks!!!"

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Whoa, I just tried to write Mr. Cheney's first name in my last post, and it got edited out automatically for being obscene!!!

[Master Zen]

Proving once again that censorship has serios side-effects

[Cyclotron]

I'm astonished... this topic went wildly off... um, topic, then managed to get back to Civ3 somehow. Has this ever happened before?

[Chemical Ollie]

I've read that Dubya owns a Playstation or similar and plays it every day. At least he did so before he became Prez. The games on PS are probably more on his intellectual level.

(Now I have only 100 spams left to write before I get my custom avatar)...

[Ripley1001]

Evolution comparisms, Global warming, Censorship and Scientists

Originally posted by Master Zen
Survival in nature is a question of life and death. You cannot make a similar comparison with industrial economics.

Master Zen I make the comparism not because they are connected like in cause and effect but because they are connected in the way people think about systems which are large and complex. Evolution, industrial economics, sports, job interviews and CIV games are about taking what you been given and making the most of it and winning through. Adaptation to your environment, is a common theme of human experience which we all understand. This gives evolution a huge head start over alien seeding or creator God`s which are not (recently anyway) understood or accepted.

Global warming is another one, (Note: the CIV thread is maintained, almost), we are guilty as hell about the rape of the earth, so rather than say this is wrong because its short term, unsustainable, greedy etc scientists have given us the global warming scenario. The scientific evidence for this is tenuous but it has become a fact, why?, because we want it to be so. If you work in the petro chemical industry their scientists sing a different tune.

What else do we want? No more censorship? There are plenty of social scientists saying this is good for you. (This subject seems to trigger much resentment amongst posters, maybe I dont get out enough or I live in the wrong country to understand this). I happen to think that some things are better left unsaid, some concepts of human experience better left unexplored.

Whats my point: well, the scientific establishment have their own agenda`s, depends on their perspectives/ambitions and of course who`s paying them.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Originally posted by Olaf Hårfagre
I've read that Dubya owns a Playstation or similar and plays it every day. At least he did so before he became Prez. The games on PS are probably more on his intellectual level.

"Hey Colin, can I do a 'finishing move' on Saddam when we get to Bagdad?"

"Um, sure Mr. President."