FIRAXIS please read! - Panzer problem solved!

[Gammaray fan]

FIRAXIS seem to be determined to implement civ-specific units such as the German 'Panzer tank', which will be tougher than normal tanks. Clearly the idea is that they will act as 'specials' to spice up the FUN of the game. Much of the civ gaming community are opposed to such preset 'specials', saying it is contrary to the 'strategy' ethos of civ.

REST ASSURED, there is a solution to satisfy both camps. Here it is:

Introduce an extra element into the science/luxury division of tax revenue. The extra element can be called 'practical science'. The game could start off with the slider bar set to 50% science, 50% practical science, 0% luxuries. The practical science level would determine the strength of any unit (or perhaps even effectiveness of building?) that the tech currently being researched by 'science' yields. Thus if you wanted a better tank, you would increase practical science and decrease science. Thus the trade off for a better unit would be that it would take longer to research it! With no unit workshop, this would be a simple, but effective way to allow each player to customise the power of their units depending on circumstances which are always UNIQUE TO EACH GAME. Thus if you picked the Germans, and started on islands, you would not be stuck to using an arbitrarily preselected 'Panzer tank' - completely useless in the situation, and you could instead spend longer getting a better battleship. (the increased time could be regained by spending less time on something less useful in the situation ie. tank - this would prevent a civ from making all their units strong. They would have to make a tradeoff - to THINK, and to PLAN)THIS IS STRATEGY!!!!!!!

[Bereta_Eder]

OK, in general I like it. Linking segragated technology to unit customization. If only I worked for Firaxis

[Zanzin]

This is a pretty good idea. I like it too.

[NotComingDown]

Cool idea!! Let's hope they at least include it in v4.0!!!

[Lawrence of Arabia]

I still like the minor tech idea better though.

------------------
Its okay to smile; you're in America now

[Quartz Dragon]

VERY GOOD IDEA

[Kevin Ar18]

I think this would be a great solution.
It would be both fun and practical.

I know I would like to be able to do that in Civ III.

[Dimorier Maximus]

What would keep someone from making all their final technology units the most powerful? If I were playing under your rules, I would have practical science set to zero until the final age of the game, at which point I would jack it up and get the most powerful land, sea, and air units.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

The minor tech idea

You finish researching Armoured Warfare. Now, you have the choice to go one and develop another major tech, or you can develop the minor tech 'Panzer Tank' This would allow you to build Panzer tanks, which would be stronger than normal tanks. Minor techs would all be like upgrades to the current units.

------------------
Its okay to smile; you're in America now

[Gammaray fan]

Arabia,
I understand that you're minor techs could work just as well. In fact, the effect would be almost the same, but you would have less control over the power of your units - its just yes a strong tank or no strong tank. Additionally, it would introduce too many units in to the game, because you would have to have a new unit for each new strength of unit, whereas with my 'practical science' model, you still only have the one tank unit. (Perhaps, you could name your unit if it is more powerful than average - that way opponents can tell if you have a stronger than normal unit)
Still, the main reason not to go with minor techs, is because they can be so easily edited into the game by editing the text files. (In fact I edited in minor techs in CTP and now always play with them) 'practical science' however, is not so easily done and thus would represent a step forward from any thing mods could have done in previous civs. Remember Civ3 should be a CIv3 no civ2.5!

[Lawrence of Arabia]

I didnt say that you needed every unit to have a minor tech assosiated with it. In fact, it could reduce units which are 'doubles .' For example, the Crusader can become a UU, once you research 'Holy Crusade' or something like that.

------------------
Its okay to smile; you're in America now

[Gammaray fan]

Maximus,
I understand your concerns about jacking up the practical science at the end of the game but I will show you how this actually saves the game...
Currently, you can research only the techs that will get you to the end game or even just gunpowder quickest, at the expense of techs like religion etc. However, there is no real penalty for doing this, with the result being that the player who does this ends up with tanks galore, while everyone else in on musketeers. Sid has already decided to make the player THINK before doing this by making 'less important techs' like religion (which are now called the arts) have buildings which can give cultural bonuses. Thus he is introducing a penalty for those who go straight for the tanks and planes in the endgame. 'Practical science' merely reinforces this trend by MILITARILY penalising those who rush for the best units in the endgame. Now, not only will 'rushers' have no 'cathedral etc' but they will be faced with a more tangible consideration of whether they really can afford to face ultra powerful enemy knights with their poor excuse of one (because they have spent minimal time on practical science). This relative need for powerful units changes EVERY GAME, and thoughout EVERY STAGE OF THE GAME, constantly keeping the player thinking and not just blindly going for the endgame every game. THIS IS STRATEGY!!!

[Gammaray fan]

Arabia,
OKAY point taken, but this severely limits the number of choices that the player has to make between 'better unit or faster tech', with the result being that the player only has to think about this issue in a few places or even not at all (if they decide researching a couple more minor techs isn't going to hurt them all that much). With the 'practical science' model, the player has to think throughout the game. And as I said before, you're suggestion could be easily implemented by the player or someones mods.
(By the way, I believe that the crusader unit should be one and the same with knights. Crusaders are still knights, the only difference is that circumstance forced West Europe to develop tougher knights to counter the Muslim threat. THere is no reason why Europe will face the same situation in a civ game, or more importantly not face the situation in some other time period where any arbitrarily implemented 'minor techs' may not have covered. (Stronger warriors, archers, triremes... who knows what situations could force a player to develop) Practical science is the only way to cover every possible thing.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

The choice 'better unit' or 'faster tech' is the same as your model. If you want faster tech, then you put your science slider bar to 100%. If you want stronger unit, you leave it at 50-50 or 25-75. I think that both ideas are good, and either of them could be implemented easily in CivIII if FIRAXIS wanted to. But the minor tech one is better because it seems unlikely that every building or unit that you build will be special. I think that only with certain techs it should be possible. Hence, the minor tech model.

------------------
Its okay to smile; you're in America now

[ancient]

i like the idea of history specific units, but it certainly does need to be controlled a little so just make the more powerfull unit cost more or be slower... Panzer's and MiG's are cool...