firaxis, please call john possidente.

[Mokael]

hmm, does anybody else realizes that this is an argument about nothing?

[markusf]

What is wrong with you people? Unique units are great. I guess the next thing firixas will have to do is give all civs made up names, so a bunch of pissed of idiots won't post every time they come up with a "new" idea. All i can say is if you don't like the game don't buy it.

[Cyclotron]

quote: Originally posted by Mokael on 05-07-2001 01:44 PM hmm, does anybody else realizes that this is an argument about nothing?

Sure do. I oppose civ-specific units on gameplay issues... whatever. It seems a bit to soon to start shouting "racist."

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- Cyclotron7, "that supplementary resource fanatic"

[Roman]

Hey, lord of the mark, I don't think you need to worry about unnique civs at all. Firaxis said the civilizations will be editable, so you can just erase all the differences. That will also keep everyone happy - those that do and those that do not want unique civs.

[Admiral PJ]

Calling it racist is pure idiocy, and some sort of fundamentalist PC rubbish so i'm not even going to bother continuing this post :P

[yin26]

LOTM:

I understand your point and have worries about it myself. The implementation is crucial here. For example, if Germany ALWAYS gets a Panzer bonus or something at some hard-coded year in the game, that would be silly. But what if Germany had to meet certain guidelines say in econ, military and tech? If all those were there by a certain point in the game, THEN they get this bonus.

That would allow a player to effectively strip Germany of this bonus by taking away the environment that would make it possible. Would also add a very strategic element to the game: Do you pound on Germany to keep them from getting their tanks or do you pound on some other civ to stop THAT bonus?

On the other hand, if it's just one bonus like a powerful tank or something, the game will get a bit tedious. But if unique bonuses were to pop up throughout the game for all civs depending on their progress at that point, I can't imagine how much character and variety that could give the game...of course, balancing all that could be a nightmare, but it would be really fun.

I hope that gives you a better sense of what I imagine is the right way to handle this.

[lord of the mark]

quote: Originally posted by yin26 on 05-08-2001 12:45 AM LOTM: I understand your point and have worries about it myself. The implementation is crucial here. For example, if Germany ALWAYS gets a Panzer bonus or something at some hard-coded year in the game, that would be silly. But what if Germany had to meet certain guidelines say in econ, military and tech? If all those were there by a certain point in the game, THEN they get this bonus. That would allow a player to effectively strip Germany of this bonus by taking away the environment that would make it possible. Would also add a very strategic element to the game: Do you pound on Germany to keep them from getting their tanks or do you pound on some other civ to stop THAT bonus? On the other hand, if it's just one bonus like a powerful tank or something, the game will get a bit tedious. But if unique bonuses were to pop up throughout the game for all civs depending on their progress at that point, I can't imagine how much character and variety that could give the game...of course, balancing all that could be a nightmare, but it would be really fun. I hope that gives you a better sense of what I imagine is the right way to handle this.

Well i assume that Germany has ot have (in civ2 terms) automobile and steel before they can get panzers. I never thought germany got panzers if the are only have chariots and legions in 1939.

But what if Germany is a commercial Republic, leading to a wealthy demo by 1939? More a Hanseatic league Germany, rather than a Prussian Germany?
Do they still get oppurtunity to research pnazers that others cannot? The assumption is that the emergence of a Guderian when GErmany gets armour is foreordained, back when they are teutons in the woods of eastern europe. With the implication that German superiority in Armour is based on some genetic or very deep cultural predilection that would emerge as soon as appropriate tech stage is reached, rather than the result of a chain of accidents. 1. Unification of Germany by Prussia, rather than anyone else
2. Nature of Junker ruling class, due to unusual circumstance of formation of Ducal Prussia - when Order of teutonic knights was secularized after the Reformation 3. The formation of the TK to crusade against Lithuanians, when crusades in Middle east petered out.
Any of a multitude of slight changes in this history (lithuanians convert to Catholicism earlier, mideast crusades last longer, Russia expands west early, etc) would halt this chain of development.

Louis XV of France: we must destroy Frederick, instead of allying with him. We msut throw all our resources against him.
Advisor: Why your majesty, it is Pitt and the English who are the real threat,no? Any day Quebec will fall.
Louis: If we do not crush Prussia now, they will go on to unite Germany in 1871. In 1939 they will emerge iwth a huge advatnage in armour and all will be lost.
Advisor: I see, your majesty.

LOTM