POLL 18: Are you worried about bugs in civ3?

[MarkG]

results on page 2
[This message has been edited by MarkG (edited May 07, 2001).]

[MarkG]

quote: Originally posted by MikeH on 03-06-2001 08:48 AM I voted... the possible answers don't really answer the question.

well, a more accurate(and longer) question would be "are you worried about bugs in civ3 and what do you think will happen with it?"
but i though it was too long

[MarkG]

quote: voter: Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS vote: "No, I have trust in Firaxis and Sid" comment: Go TEAM!

i'm not sure if firaxians have the right for these polls

[markusf]

I really hope they do a limited beta test before it goes gold. civ2-multiplaying and civ2-strat forums would be a great place to start.
I would suggest QA focus on.

1. synchronization in multiplayer.. (getting non units and disbanding units after they have been bribed etc)

2. population limits (how did they ever miss that?) city number limits, units, powergraph limits.

3. investigating a city and looking at the other players maps etc.


Mark G Would you take the huge list of all known defects from the civ2-strat forum and email them to the civ3 team? If they are using the same code base these bugs will exist in civ3.

[MarkG]

quote: Originally posted by markusf on 03-06-2001 07:31 PM Mark G Would you take the huge list of all known defects from the civ2-strat forum and email them to the civ3 team? If they are using the same code base these bugs will exist in civ3.

what exactly are you talking about? if you mean the various cheats, i think they were included in the List

[markusf]

Cheats bugs whatever you want to call them. As well as things like when you customize your civ in a multiplayer game there is a 50% chance it works. Cities that are vertical to each other can share the same squares for production at the same time. Then there are the "cheat" bugs, bisbanding units after your city was bribed, Clicking on a unit in the field to see what enemy civ its closest to. In my opinion its fixing the bugs in that list that will make the greatest contribution to the next version of civ.

[yin26]

Actually, the Cheats section (run by Ming ) of The List got some of the most positive feedback from the Civ3 team. They simply were not aware of a good number of the cheat (the ones you mentioned are in there, so don't worry). I honestly believe that if there are any cheats in Civ3, they will be new ones (if any), not the old ones we have had for so long.

[Ming]

My list didn't include that customization doesn't always work, but I think the other topics were all included.

And you are right Yin... new cheats probably won't be discovered until all the "hard cores" have a chance to play Civ III for awhile. Many of them are discovered by accident, and others are discovered by people like MWHC and Xin Yu, who just like to play around and experiment. If they fix the bugs/problems from Civ II, that will be a good start. The real trick with Civ III will be to find some of the problems early so they can be fixed in the first patch. For Civ II, MWHC found a BIG BUG, emailed them with it, and even though the second patch came out almost right after he brought the bug to their attention, it was fixed. Now that's what I call service

[yin26]

So what I'm getting at here is we should organize a highly-determined and just as highly-productive team of "Bug Hunters" from Apolyton whose job it will be to test the living bejeezez out of Civ3 from Day 1. We then make it a point to produce the slickest, most organized bug list for Patch 1. Imagine how much we could get done by a Patch 2 or 3! I'm serious!

This will NOT be some whining session. It will be a "public beta" for anybody willing to join in on the spirit of making the game better while we have a chance.

For I have a feeling Civ3 may be the last of the series keeping at least the heart of the original game, and it would suck if we ultimately have to leave it a few months from "perfection" because Firaxis has to move on (which, of course, they will have to at some point). Let's give Firaxis the low-down VERY early so we have a shot at this...

[Ming]

Man... You are so RIGHT! As much as Civ II is a playable game, Civ III will probably be the last version with the "right" feel.

Sign me up now. Finding bugs way after the fact won't help. The earlier we track them down, the better. I'll have to make sure that Xin Yu is involved... he single handly discovered many of the "cheats/bugs" long before anybody else ran across them.

[markusf]

Exactly ming, it doesn't matter how much testing the civ3 team does they won't find them all. I also remember when they test the game they aren't actually playing it from end to end. They are just assigned to test this screen or some functionality. This results in them missing a lot of things.

[Skeeve]

The CIV3 designers should just play Call to Power II and thereby learn what NOT to do!


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My reach exceeds my grasp!

[supremus]

Bugs of course will happen ! There`s no free bug game ! What we hope is that they can be only a few. And if the game is awesome we can survive with a few bugs. Civ II was awesome and we could live with its few bugs.

[Ming]

Yes, every game will have bugs. While I never expect a "perfect" game, many of the bugs just need to be pointed out to the manufacturers. As long as it is easy to fix, they will... as long as they are still supporting the game.

The problem I see is, that many of those Cheats that were reported to me while I was doing my Cheats section, took OVER A YEAR TO FIND!
We need to really analyize and break down the game when it comes out. And even so, some still won't be found. The earlier they can be found the better. We can never expect a company to support a game that is old and no longer worth any profit them. But they will support it when it is still new and generating revenue (unless it's Activision )

Normally, you just find bugs/cheats in the normal course of play. Yes, a few like Xin Yu experiment just out of normal curiosity... but it does take time to come across them.

We MUST make a concerted effort to tear Civ III apart when it comes out.
Normal play isn't the answer. Yes, we will need to take some time becoming familiar with it... but after that, we all need to play Sherlock Holmes and experiment like crazy on it.

So I agree with Yin 100% on the need to organize an effort to deal with this BEFORE the game is released so we can hit the deck running.

As I stated before Yin... please add me to whatever team is formed.
You know where to reach me

[supremus]

quote: Originally posted by Ming on 03-08-2001 02:45 PM We MUST make a concerted effort to tear Civ III apart when it comes out. Normal play isn't the answer. Yes, we will need to take some time becoming familiar with it... but after that, we all need to play Sherlock Holmes and experiment like crazy on it. So I agree with Yin 100% on the need to organize an effort to deal with this BEFORE the game is released so we can hit the deck running. As I stated before Yin... please add me to whatever team is formed. You know where to reach me

This kind of behavior is exactly what the companie's developer wait from the gamers. That's the less expensive way to make patches and keep customers happy. Launch unfinished products in the market place, wait some weeks for the fanatics gamers to find out bugs and then making patches. That's the way thigs are and they only will change when game buyers start to be as demanding as more mature markets buyers.