What about TWO A3-sized miniposters?

[Ralf]

I have some mixed feelings about one gigantic multifolded cumbersome Civ-3 tech-poster, with all the info on one side.

I would actually instead prefer at least two A3-sized mini-posters with info on both sides. The A3-size is much more manageable, and such small posters could also be copied/shrinked to A4 on colour-zerox machines, and then plastic-coated by player-initiative, for better durability.

Poster 1 could have the all-important tech-tree on one side, and the unit-info on the other side.
Poster 2 could have city-improvement & wonder info on one side, and government-info and terrain/resource-info on the other side.

[This message has been edited by Ralf (edited April 23, 2001).]

[Ilkuul]

(First, for the benefit of our North American brethren, who may not yet have caught up with the rest of the world in this area, A3 paper is approx. 11.7" x 16.5"...)

Second, I would have to disagree with you seriously about one thing, and that is having info on both sides of the posters! No, no, no, no. I don't mind papering my room with posters, but I want to be able to see everything at a glance, not to have to keep flipping two A3 sheets from one side to the other! A3 is cumbersome enough itself. I'd rather modify your idea to say, let them do four A3 posters!

I do like the idea of being able to conveniently reduce them by photocopying, but I'm not sure if the Firaxis/Hasbro copyright gurus would!

[Ralf]

quote: Originally posted by Ilkuul on 04-23-2001 03:23 PM I'd rather modify your idea to say, let them do four A3 posters!

Well, thats OK by me. I think however they perhaps choose for the most economical solution here.

quote: I do like the idea of being able to conveniently reduce them by photocopying, but I'm not sure if the Firaxis/Hasbro copyright gurus would!

Ooops! Didnt thought about that. Nevertheless , they should make that tech-tree poster smaller and more manageable anyway.

[Nemo]

remember how Civ I tech tree flipped out of teh back jacket of the manual? it was managable, and is still in one piece today since it was a more cardboard like paper (unlike my civII and smac posters which are in pieces, and smac didnt even get that many hours of play from me). and remember how Civ II had all the terain/unit info? well, i propose that the back cover of the manual is like Civ I with the tech tree. and the front cover of the manual is the same kind of fold out, but with the unit/terrain info. this way it is sturdy, not too big, and is double sided so the publisher wont lose money during print (double sided as in: the back of one chart is the cover of the manual, and the back of the other chart is the back of the manual). and if you want to hang it up...just cut of the front and back cover of the manual.

[GaryGuanine]

There's specific sizes of paper in other countries? We kinda have that, but you have to remember the size of the sides (in inches, of course). That's a great idea.

Gary

[SerapisIV]

quote: Originally posted by Ilkuul on 04-23-2001 03:23 PM (First, for the benefit of our North American brethren, who may not yet have caught up with the rest of the world in this area, A3 paper is approx. 11.7" x 16.5"...)

For those of you who haven't been damned by history/tradition to be stuck with English units, approx. 30cm X 42cm (okay I couldn't resist, if engineering has taught me anything its that English units suck and metric is good, but I digress...)

About the miniposters, I really don't care what or how many or what size as long as I get get some extra eye-candy for CivIII, specifically a good thick manual and tech/unit posters.

I do have to say that the CivII reference card was much more useful to me then SMAC's poster. Posters are too unwieldy and I don't have room to hang it up. Thick paper bordering on cardboard is needed as my SMAC tech map quickly got worn

[Roman]

I consider posters totally unnecessary.

[Vrank Prins]

Activision has listed all information for CTP on one doublesided A-2 poster. The techtree takes one side, and on the other side there are lists with information on tiles, tile-improvements, tradegoods, units, city-improvements, wonders and different government styles (I'm not sure, I may have forgotten one or two features here).

Annoying thing is that the prerequisite information in all lists is left out. That means, that when you want know with which advance some feature (unit, tile-improvement etc.) in the game is introduced or becomes obsolete, you'll have to look in the tech-tree. And for those who are not yet that used with the game (and the poster) that sometimes may be quite a puzzle.

I don't care too much about the seize of the poster (though not unimportant !!). What I would like to see is complete and handy information. Which information do we want to have on that poster.
[This message has been edited by Vrank Prins (edited April 24, 2001).]

[Jarouik]

I think the Civ 2 poster is better than the foldouts/reference cards, since I put it on the wall next to my monitor, so I don't even have to turn my head to see the tech tree, unit stats etc. (Now, if the text was just a bit larger, it'd be easier to read from where I'm sitting...) Admittedly, if you keep the poster folded and handle it a lot, a durable cardboard/plastic reference card would be better... and if a poster comes with Civ 3, as I hope, I will have to move the Civ 2 one out of the way. In addition, a Civilization poster, preferably a very complex and technical-looking one with lots of tables and charts, brings a certain style to my otherwise bare walls

As for the contents of the poster, aside from the mandatory tech tree and unit and terrain stats I don't think you can fit much more information on a single side - there is only so much space on a poster, if you want it to be legible from even a small distance, and the tables on the other side of the tech tree wouldn't be used if you put it on a wall, which is what a poster is for. In case more information has to be shown, I vote for a durable reference card.

[MidKnight Lament]

Summary:
- Posters are good.
- Large ones do get a bit clumsy, but there is a lot of info after all
- Don't double side them! (this will mean the size won't matter as much as well)

------------------
- MKL ... "And a sun that doesn't set but settles" - Augie March
Shameless Plug: http://www.poetic-license.org ............. All welcome.

[Ilkuul]

quote: Originally posted by SerapisIV on 04-24-2001 01:53 AM For those of you who haven't been damned by history/tradition to be stuck with English units, approx. 30cm X 42cm (okay I couldn't resist, if engineering has taught me anything its that English units suck and metric is good, but I digress...)

Er... why do those who haven't been stuck with English units have to have a metric paper size explained to them???!! (It's actually 29.7cm x 42cm, as most people outside North America are well aware!) Sorry, I too couldn't resist the comeback!

About posters/cards, I wouldn't mind having them on more durable material, but I have to say I wouldn't want to go back to the Civ1 method of attaching them to the manual covers, as Nemo suggested. That makes the thing even more cumbersome and awkward on a table, and NO WAY do I want to deface my nice, big, chunky manual by having to cut the covers off!

[SerapisIV]

quote: Originally posted by Ilkuul on 04-24-2001 06:13 PM Er... why do those who haven't been stuck with English units have to have a metric paper size explained to them???!! (It's actually 29.7cm x 42cm, as most people outside North America are well aware!) Sorry, I too couldn't resist the comeback!

Hey, I rounded the conversions, sue me.

How are papers sized outside of the US (the only place I know)? Everything gets sized by letter and number? No wonder you guys took a few millenia after the Romans to get close to reunifying again. (alright stupid jibe, but I gotta say somethng damnit!)


An even better idea is to have the cards laminated and foldable, like some of the better maps out there. Why? Because if you're gonna play Civ for 12 hours at atime, you can get thirsty and not all of us are blessed with good hand-eye coordination, just ask my first 2 keyboards, I bet they're still sticky from coke.
[This message has been edited by SerapisIV (edited April 24, 2001).]

[Ceci n'est pas Snapcase]

Hah! Won't fit in the new casing. You might get one on-line or a tiny one at the end of the manual, if you're lucky. Otherwise, shell out another $4.99 for the official game guide. (Including two mega-jumbo posters, and a photo of Sid Meier in A1 format!)

[SerapisIV]

I've heard talk about this new standardized casing, but I've yet to see ANY company use it. I fully expect to see CivIII in the same old box, though a bit smaller then usual, (like Red Alert 2, which has a relatively smaller box) with the usual manual and info card of some sort. Firaxis has never been shy with manuals, and except for the lack of an index in SMACs, they usually give the game the full treatment, so I'm not too worried about getting only .pdf files on the CD, Firaxis and Sid haven't done that yet, I see no reason why they would now.

[Ralf]

quote: Originally posted by GaryGuanine on 04-23-2001 10:24 PM There's specific sizes of paper in other countries?

This is how it works:

A4-size = A sheet of standard-size typewriter-paper. Fold it in two exact halves and you got size A5. On the other hand; align two A4 next to each other (double the area) and you got size A3. Then continue with aligning two A3 next to each other and you suddenly got size A2.

If I remember it correctly the original Civ-2 map was arounf size A2, give or take.