How about this for the American UU?

[Dis]

I don't like modern era UU's.

I say have a industrial age uu.

Perhaps something like the infantry units in the revolutionary war.

[Mad Bomber]

For industrial units yiou could use:

Kentucky Riflemen: 3.5.1 (replaces musketmen)
Minuetmen: 2.4.2 (also replaces musketmen)
Steamboat: Travels up rivers also in coast and sea squares
transport 3 0.3.5
Clipper Ship: transport:5 0.3.6
Rough Riders: 6.3.3 cost=60
USS Ironsides: 5.4.4 replaces frigates.
Turtle or Hundley 4.1.3 (available with magantism, very early sub,
invisible flag
Indian Scout: 2.2.3 all terrain as roads, replaces explorer
Homesteader:0.1.2 replaces settler (could also be called pioneer)
Rangers: 5.3.2 ignore rough terrain, replaces LB and MEI and upgrades to guerilla

[SuperSlinky]

Battleships should become obsolete when Aegis cruisers become available. Are any of them still in service today? I know the US navy brought one out of retirement, briefly, about 10 years ago, but AFAIK, very few, if any, have been built since WWII. An aegis cruiser should be able to defeat a battleship with ease. A battleship's big artillery guns would be no match for the range and accuracy of missles.

I think a good American UU would be a minuteman replacement for the the musketman. Make them just like a regular musketman but dirt cheap to build.

[Centauri18]

Uh, Bomber, what you refer to as the "Ironsides" was really, I think, the USS Constitution. Her nickname was "Old Ironsides" because enemy shells just seemed to bounce off.

[Centauri18]

Oh, and the minuteman thing kinda makes sense.

[TacticalGrace]

Originally posted by Mad Bomber
For industrial units yiou could use:

Kentucky Riflemen: 3.5.1 (replaces musketmen)

aren't these kind-of like riflemen?

Minuetmen: 2.4.2 (also replaces musketmen)

what is this some kind of 17th century dancing man? Maybe this could be the Austrian unique unit. I'm sure Vienna churned out many Minuetmen. If an elite Minuetman wins in combat perhaps they could create a great leader called Mozart.

or did you mean: Minutemen?

I don't see why they should have movement of 2. What would be better perhaps would be a cheap unit with no support costs. "Available at a minute's notice".

Steamboat: Travels up rivers also in coast and sea squares

striking fear into the enemy...

beside you can't mod river travel.

Clipper Ship: transport:5 0.3.6

Were americans known for this?

Rough Riders: 6.3.3 cost=60

The rough riders were more like conscripts. See my comments on the Minutemen

USS Ironsides: 5.4.4 replaces frigates.

you're thinking of the USS Constitution. It had an impressive record but with these stats where does that leave the already pretty useless Man-O-war?

Turtle or Hundley 4.1.3 (available with magantism, very early sub,
invisible flag

yes but the turtle, though innovative, was utter rubbish. Movement rate of 3? You must be joking. More like 1, and must stay coastal.

The same applied to the Hunley. It did manage to sink a ship but sunk itself in the process.

Indian Scout: 2.2.3 all terrain as roads, replaces explorer

Perhaps they would fall more under the Iriquios flag in civ3.

Homesteader:0.1.2 replaces settler (could also be called pioneer)

The first pioneers in America would have flown the British flag (or French). The Canadian pioneers certainly would. Besides this is just as bad as the F15 in terms of triggering a golden era.

Rangers: 5.3.2 ignore rough terrain, replaces LB and MEI and upgrades to guerilla

perhaps. Did rangers ever get used against other civs? or was it civil war only?


personally I think that the US Marine should be the UU. When it came to amphibious assault, the americans became the world experts in WWII and their island hopping was very successful and driven by the marine. Following the success of WWII came a golden age of american science, industry and commerce.

[Mad Bomber]

Tactical Grace:

1) Yes they were riflemen but the rifles were hunting rifles and not designed for a combat role, in addition they were available approx 70 years before the first military rifle was adopted for an army (with the one exception of the Ferguson rifle, but only 100 of these rifles were ever produced) so I think that it appropriate to replace the musketmen.

2) of course I mispelled the Minutemen.... perhaps no support would be good, but I would prefer the 2 move to balance the unit....Why does the Samurai have 2 move? They rarely rode horses into combat.

3) Rivers should be able to be navigated, its a cryin' shame they are not.

4) The wily Americans did invent and develop the Clipper ship.

5) Rough Riders were a cav unit, they were a volunteer unit and were by no means conscripted.

6) I think the MOW should be improved as well, perhaps a 6.5.4 unit, but you must admit those pesky frigates of ours gave the Brits fits in 1812.

7) The idea was a basic early sub idea, could have added the Holland as well but the idea was more of a different flavor than practicallity.

8) Indian scout for the iroqouis? No. What would distinguish them from other Iroqouis? Woulden't all Iroqouis be Indian Scouts? For the Iroqouis I would recomend the Brave instead (the Iroqouis did not use horses as much as the plains indians)

9) When I think of pioneers I think of wagon trains crossing the great Prarie lands of the west and midwest, not the crossing on the Mayflower ([John Wayne voice] those were pilgrims, pilgrim [/John Wayne Voice])

10) I am not refering to the Texas Rangers but to the guerilla type forces commanded by the likes of John Rodgers, Daniel Morgan, Thomas Knowlton, and Francis Marion ('the Swamp Fox")
in the French and Indian War and The American Revolution. This unit does admittedly tie into the Kentucky Riflemen however.

Now as for the Marine UU, I can not say that it is a terrible Idea, but WW2 was won by more than just the Marines. And I could think of at least 5 UU's from WW2 that were just as important in winning the war as the marine was.

[SuperSlinky]

Originally posted by Mad Bomber

6) I think the MOW should be improved as well, perhaps a 6.5.4 unit, but you must admit those pesky frigates of ours gave the Brits fits in 1812.

Actually, the small American navy was little more than a nuisance to the world's biggest and best navy of the time. We had a handful of high quality ships that won a few individual encounters, but other than that the British navy was able to maintain a blockade of most American ports. The British whined that the USS Constitution and its ilk were actually ships of the line with a few less guns as an excuse for the embarrassing defeats they suffered.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Mad Bomber

The reason for having the Aegis Cruiser and Destroyer have the ability to carry aircraft is so that they can carry a helo for ASW.

Then you would also have to add the ability to carry cruise missles.

Cruisers and especially Destroyers are outfitted with them.

ACK!

[Apolex]

American UU

How about the Americans UU being a nuke... like the Minuteman or Trident missile. It could have a blast range of 2 tiles instead of one

[Tattila the Hun]

Nukes (and cruise missiles) are destroyed in the process. Would this affect the Golden Age start?

If you would not have gotten the GA by the time you got nukes, you'd have to blast some poor b*stard, risking other civs to declare war on you...

[TacticalGrace]

Mad Bomber:
fair enough. I'm beginning to like the idea of the clipper and I agree with your stats.

Of course the pinnacle of clipper design was the Cutty Sark, which was British. But I'm biased.

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by SuperSlinky


Actually, the small American navy was little more than a nuisance to the world's biggest and best navy of the time. We had a handful of high quality ships that won a few individual encounters, but other than that the British navy was able to maintain a blockade of most American ports. The British whined that the USS Constitution and its ilk were actually ships of the line with a few less guns as an excuse for the embarrassing defeats they suffered.

Actually the British were not far of, The US Frigates based on the Constitution design carries 44 guns compared to the European standard of 36. (note: A Ship of the Line standard was aprox 110 by the time of 1812 but only 74 in 1780's). They were also built with an improved keel design making them able to withstand a tremendous amount of punishment. In short they were the equivelent to the Battle Cruiser of their day. After a few encounters, the British ordered their Frigates to not engage a US frigate alone. I should also note that the US navy was the first to develop the Screw frigate (a ship using a steam engine, and a screw for propulsion.)

Tactical Grace:

I sensed a bit of Brit envy but I can't blame you. Once your navy was the queen of the world, now its almost a third rate navy.

Tuberski:

I mod the destroyer to carry one, and the aegis cruiser to carry two, both with the ability to carry aircraft and tactical missles. The sub can also carry one tactical missle and the Nuc sub can carry four tactical missles.

[TacticalGrace]

Originally posted by Mad Bomber

I sensed a bit of Brit envy but I can't blame you. Once your navy was the queen of the world, now its almost a third rate navy.

give me a break. We've got the best mine-clearance and sub-hunting capability in the world. Besides good international relations* are arguably as good as having the biggest navy (and a lot cheaper).


* sometimes we even get the French to cooperate. How many nations can boast that?

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by TacticalGrace

We've got the best mine-clearance and sub-hunting capability in the world. Besides good international relations* are arguably as good as having the biggest navy (and a lot cheaper).

Yes your ASW is excellent, but in terms of numbers and relative power of your ships, The RN is but a shadow of its former self.

The RN is capable of protecting the British Isles and not much else I am afraid. In 10-20 years The RN will be behind France, Italy, Russia, China, Korea, Spain and India in naval power. They are already behind France, Russia and Italy.

International Relations while are important, are no recourse when faced with war (just ask Chaimberlain in that regard)

Of course the Idea was that a large navy was not needed after giving up the empire, but the British need a larger navy than they currently posses. They still have worldwide commitments, and they rely on the US navy far too much for support.

I am not saying your ships are not good, in fact they are excellent especially in terms of ASW. I am saying that there are too few of them these days.