Minor Civilizations?

[Roman]

Sid stated in one of his letters that there will also be minor civilizations in Civ3. However, so far the idea has not resurfaced either in the CGW preview or on Firaxis website. Should we assume the idea has been killed in the development process? Any views?

IMO: Minor civilizations are dead, because the CGW preview was quite detailed and they did not mention this major issue.

[King Richard]

quote: Originally posted by Roman on 04-12-2001 08:11 PM Sid stated in one of his letters that there will also be minor civilizations in Civ3. However, so far the idea has not resurfaced either in the CGW preview or on Firaxis website. Should we assume the idea has been killed in the development process? Any views? IMO: Minor civilizations are dead, because the CGW preview was quite detailed and they did not mention this major issue.

I don't think we should assume that anything is either in or out! Some of the beauty of a new game is the surprise when we finally get our hands on the game! I think Sid knows this. Imagine if everybody knew how the new game would look like before it is published?! Then we'll know what to expect and would probably be disapointed. I can't wait to explore civ3 when it finally arrives, and I hope it will have a lot of surprises. But I think that we can at least expect a "Alpha Centauri-lookalike". If there are any minor civs, they will probably quickly bow to your civ (or other civs), but will be hard to assimilate (like the jews).

[SerapisIV]

quote: Originally posted by King Richard on 04-12-2001 08:26 PM I don't think we should assume that anything is either in or out! Some of the beauty of a new game is the surprise when we finally get our hands on the game! I think Sid knows this. Imagine if everybody knew how the new game would look like before it is published?! Then we'll know what to expect and would probably be disapointed. I can't wait to explore civ3 when it finally arrives, and I hope it will have a lot of surprises. But I think that we can at least expect a "Alpha Centauri-lookalike". If there are any minor civs, they will probably quickly bow to your civ (or other civs), but will be hard to assimilate (like the jews).

I agree with the fact that Sid is gonna keep tight-lipped on all the features, jeez the game is 8 months away, (at least) gotta keep the bulletin boards and fan sites interested with only small revelations at a time. About what tribes they'd be, I think most will be the Germanic tribes that occupied Eurasia prior during Romes fall, the Goths, Visigoths, Huns, etc.

[Ilkuul]

quote: Originally posted by Roman on 04-12-2001 08:11 PM Minor civilizations are dead, because the CGW preview was quite detailed and they did not mention this major issue.

Oh no, I'm definitely assuming they're still very much alive! They were mentioned, as you say, but Firaxis have just not chosen to give us any more information about them as yet. If they're really beefing up the diplomatic side, as they've said, I don't see how they can avoid having something like this, to allow for revolts etc. In their first 'Ask the Team', there was a question that specifically talked about "a tendency for a city to rebel (violently or through political shifts) after a time in order to rejoin its mother civilization (if still around) or revolting to re-create it's past civilization (if the original civ is not around any longer)?" -- and the answer from Firaxis, while not specifically mentioning minor civs, did say that there would be "all sorts of effects including many you refer to in your question".

Taken in combination with Sid's comments, this confirms to me that there will definitely be some equivalent of minor civs -- maybe not as we imagine them, but nevertheless an expansion of the simple 7 major civs in Civ2.

[SerapisIV]

Remember that everything we've read from Sid, CGW, Dan, is still in flux. For as the game becomes further playtested (extensively playtested as claimed in CGW), these features that sound like good ideas may not last. I truly hope that minor civs stay, but don't forget, they may not
[This message has been edited by SerapisIV (edited April 12, 2001).]

[King Richard]

quote: Originally posted by SerapisIV on 04-12-2001 08:36 PM I agree with the fact that Sid is gonna keep tight-lipped on all the features, jeez the game is 8 months away, (at least) gotta keep the bulletin boards and fan sites interested with only small revelations at a time. About what tribes they'd be, I think most will be the Germanic tribes that occupied Eurasia prior during Romes fall, the Goths, Visigoths, Huns, etc.

About the tribes: If there are going to be minor tribes, I can't imagine that they are the tribes that occupied the eurasia. Perhaps some of them, but remember that some of these tribes settled in areas wich became France, England, Germany etc. This means that we are going to have a problem with city-names. French, franks and carolingians can't coexist, because they occupied the same territories at different times.

[Ilkuul]

Absolutely wise, Serapis, but damping... definitely damping. I prefer to be optimistic and bite the bullet later!

[SerapisIV]

I've always thought "assume the worst, everything else is bonus" Can't be dissappointed that way.
Though optimism does creep in there I'm afraid. Particularly with tried and true game designers .

But then again I did get suckered into being optimistic about C&C: Tiberian Sun, my mistake
[This message has been edited by SerapisIV (edited April 12, 2001).]

[Lonestar]

How about the Toltecs? You kids, you love your Toltecs, right?

------------------
"People should know when they're conquered."

"Would you Quintis? Would I?"

"Soylant Green is people. PPPeeeoooppllleee!"
[This message has been edited by Lonestar (edited April 12, 2001).]

[King Richard]

quote: Originally posted by Lonestar on 04-12-2001 09:53 PM How about the Toltecs? You kids, you love your Toltecs, right?

Who the hell are the Toltecs?

[SerapisIV]

They were a pre-Aztec N. American civilization, about 4-5 hundred years of prominence or so. They conquered portions of the Mayans I think.

[King Richard]

quote: Originally posted by SerapisIV on 04-12-2001 10:04 PM They were a pre-Aztec N. American civilization, about 4-5 hundred years of prominence or so. They conquered portions of the Mayans I think.

You mean the Olmecs!

[SerapisIV]

No the Olmecs were around 1000BC, the Toltecs, 1000AD
http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~dee/CIVAMRCA/CIVAMRCA.HTM

[King Richard]

Yes, you're right! The Olmecs perished before the Maya ever excisted... I'm studying history, but I havent come to the Toltecs yet... (I should really know this since the exam is coming up...)

[SerapisIV]

Studying N. American civilizations in Norway?