Developers, cheat on us!

[Hasdrubal]

Firaxis, please make the AI cheat as much as it neats to beat the human player!

No AI, no matter how much it will be improved (and I hope a lot), can be expected to beat an experienced player by fair means. So let it be by foul means...

All I'm asking for are the meanest, baddest, backstabbing, cheating SOB's ever.

[wittlich]

So...you want a REAL challenge eh Hasdrubal?

[Mark_Everson]

I agree completely! It would be best to make the AI of high quality, but failing that... The AI levels should take cheating to a level that will go Far beyond what the designers think is beatable. Otherwise Civ3 will be beaten 'right out of the box' on the highest levels like Civ2 was by experienced players.

That was a crushing disappointment for me with Civ2.

[Sean]

If worse comes to worse...and on the highest levels there probably is little way around it. But a fear a dumb AI that cheats is still dumb. That is, they will just use their increased production to build a ridiculas number of out-dated units and this sort of thing, if not actually this example.

[colossus]

Although allowing the AI some cheats generally improves their competiveness, but it is also very distasteful to see the AI doing the magics that human players are plainly refused. I would like to see that if the AI could not develop good enough strategy against human players, they should at the very least try to gang up against us. For example, AI are programmed so that they don't fight any war with each other, and trade or gift all their techs to each other. Given that the AI get to build Marco Polo early, they could share all their techs. This should post enough problems for human player.

[Daimyo]

I really don't think that to allow the AI to cheat is a good idea.
This would worsen the gameplay... If you want a challenge, play on higher difficulty level. I wonder how many civer's are that **good enough**to beat the AI easily on the toughest level..
[This message has been edited by Daimyo (edited March 21, 2001).]

[Zanzin]

Cheating AI!! No!! I'm sick of AI's that cheat! How hard is it to make an AI that is actually geniunely intelligent? Surely it can be done!

[GaryGuanine]

It would be very difficult to write an AI that is as "good" as a person. Short of making something as smart as a person, I think it might be impossible. I know that we have a limited scope, as far as the AI doesn't have to do "person" things, but look at the chess computers. Chess has so many fewer combinations than Civ, and look what they need to beat a person honestly at that. Cheating AI will always be there, because a computer program written in the course of a year or so can never be as complex as a human brain. Once we make artificial brains, the computer won't have to cheat.

Gary

[DaveV]

quote: Originally posted by Daimyo on 03-21-2001 11:07 AM I wonder how many civer's are that **good enough**to beat the AI easily on the toughest level..

Several dozen at least in the strategy forum on this site. Those who can beat the game easily probably only make up a tiny fraction of the people playing the game, but we're a vocal minority...

Insert standard plea for Firaxis to make the AI modifiable by the end user here.

[The Viceroy]

Ohh .. AI AI again

Well, if you use a rule based AI, it doesn't take long for even the least experienced civer to work out that the AI always reacts in the same way .. and unfortunatly, nearly all AI's are rule based.

What I have proposed for eons is the partial use of neural nets .. basically, keep the rule base as nature, and allow the AI to learn through nurture .. how does it learn ?? from YOU !!

eventually, a sucessful nuture can be passed to nature .. and failing nature can be removed ..

This evolutionary approach will ensure that each game is unique ..

If AI cheating is to be considered, it should be user controlled .. option to turn it on, and even select the kind of cheating level you want .. so you really can make it impossible for yourself, if you so desire.


------------------
"Wherever wood floats, you will find the British" . Napoleon

[The Viceroy]

Duplicated.. sorry
[This message has been edited by The Viceroy (edited March 22, 2001).]

[Father Beast]

Have we given up hope on some sort of user adjustable AI, then?
when Xin Yu or somebody can teach the AI their favorite tricks?
is this just a dream?

[wittlich]

It would be nice to the AI which can, over time, catch on to a human player's strategy and use it against him/her....THEN we would have a game!

[jglidewell]

'All I'm asking for are the meanest, baddest, backstabbing, cheating SOB's ever'


You see the AI toggling cheat mode. you see the AI eliminating all of your cities. You see the AI add all advances to himsellf. You see the AI build the space ship in one turn.

Is that how you want it to cheat?

If there is any cheating (to circumvent AI bloat code and analysis) then it must be of the form that does not affect player to player interaction.

For example if the AI is cheating and not letting the city go into revolt and I send in a spy to cause civil unrest than it is affecting my game play and wasting my time.

What types of cheating would you allow?

[Henrik]

Yeah, an AI that would see: Ah he allways do like that, hmmm...
Then the next time he tries I will do this, hehe