Archers, what are with these things?

[The Pioneer]

Yup, I am a late starter. I like to build things first but in a game I played a couple months ago I did an archer rush and I did a lot of damage. I liked that too and I guess doing some damage in the beginning is essential in higher difficulty levels but I still prefer the slow way !

So long...

[Jamski]

Just for my interest, what level are you playing on "normally" Pioneer ?

-Jam

[PrinceBimz]

Fortified Spearmen have an advantage against Archers while defending. Although Archers attack @ 2 and Spearmen defend @ 2, the Spearmen will get any terrain and city advantages provided they are defending. Sometimes the AI will get so freaking lucky though. Just put Spearmen on hills, mountains, forests, and in your cities and fortify. Then after you kill their Archers, you can gradually move the Spearmen into the AI city territories pillaging everything in site.

[Jamski]

And then the AI attacks with 10000 Archers? I think the original problem needs a more pro-active solution. The best way to kill archers is to attack them. Every unit is equal or better than the Archer's very poor defence of 1 Get them before they can use their strengths against you. (Cheapness, high attack in v. early game etc)

-Jam

[The Pioneer]

Correct if you get attacked by them you should attack them and enjoy the massacre because they can't defend. On the other side if you go out with them for an attack I would advise you to have a couple of defensive units in the stack.

@WoA I usually play in Regent. I havn't really tried any higher levels.

So long...

[latka]

There are several defenses against archers.

1) Spearmen or better fortified behind city walls. I have noticed on occassion that this defense will fail regardless of how good your defensive unit is.

2) Attack the archer with anything that you have, including the kitchen sink. The archers defense is so poor that it would probably hit with its first retaliation, but will not do well afterwards. Jagwar warrior or mounted units are best here. If the archer does get lucky and you have not used up all your movements, then you will be able to retreat and fight another day. Plus, the archer will probably be so weak at this point that you may be able to take it out with spearman.

3) Catapults. Units not inside a city are succeptable to bombardment attacks. Weaken the archer and then take it out with a spearman. If you do not have more than one spearman at the location, then take your chance against a wounded archer. The AI seems reluctant to attack with damaged units. If it does, then your odds should be better at surviving the attack, because your Catapult will get a defensive bombardment in and then your unit will get to defend.

Whether one gets the most bang for their buck with the archer is debatable, but it can not be argued that one gets a big bang, becuase of the upgrade path. IMHO I feel the best bang is the catapult, becuase of its upgrade path and its abaility to do damage to cities, units and terrain. I have said it before, and I will say it again, "Civ is about advantages and disadvantages." Anything that takes my opponents advantages away is an advantage to me. I don't need to conquer them on the battle field, I just need them to not to conquer me. Eventually, I will be able to deal with their units.

[Neekirul]

The problem is that these things are taking out spearmen fortified in cities with a near 100% success rate.

[alva]

True, they only get their special defense bonus agains tanks..

You have either been lucky or unlucky, but the ods are with the spearman.

[Japher]

Yup, I usually attack the archers before they reach my city. They do have a poor defense. Get your swordboys on them as soon as you see them.

[latka]

Neekirul,

The behavior you are experiencing is not normal. Let's start there. Have you installed the 1.29f patch? I don't think this will do much for you, because I do not recall anyone posting anything in regards to the unfairness of archers in the past.

Next, try playing the game on cheiftan level. You should be able to out produce the AI easily and verify the problem. You may even want to go into the editor and create a generic scenario, were you can test things easily.

When attacking or defending, I have noticed that archers a fairly good at getting the first hit in, but after that they do very poorly at defending and very good at attacking. Just something to note.

One other thing that just came to mind. Does the archer seem to have a large number of hit points? Is there another guy that seems to be following this archer around? I am curious to know if you are actually fighting an army of units, rather than just an individual archer. An army would be more difficult to take out and should always win against your single fortified spearman.

[Neekirul]

Its certaintly not an army. The thing is, it keeps happening.

I just had a regular archer take down a veteran fortified spearman in a city. The archer was on a grasslands square, and only took 1/3rd damage.

[Neekirul]

Also, I've been using the Play The World executable.

[Theseus]

Can you post a SAV?

[Dis]

note: even though the archer's defense is only 1 sometimes the ai is lucky.

I would not attack them on mountain squares with horseman. you will probably lose.

see my above post to find out how to take out archers with horseman.

[Dis]

I once had a problem playing the romans with the ai horseman taking out my vet spearman fortified in a city behind city walls. I was mighty pissed let me tell you.

One thing I notice is that when it rains it pours. If you have multiple civs against you or the enemy ai has a larger army than you they seem to do better. Don't ask me why, but it seems to be true. I tend to lose battles I shouldn't lose.

How to correct this problem? Well always maintain a larger army than the ai and don't take on more than 2 at a time. I have found when I do this I nearly always when battles I should win.