How to make civ3 more epic?

[Trachmir]

Okay I got an idea, it a little off the wall though. You can add all these features in, but after the game is over... well, it's over!

A game replay feature has already been mentioned by firaxis, and my idea is based off that. At the end of your game, it save a "Game History" file... it not only shows the game (how in depth I dunno), but interupts it with imbedded movies... scenes of celebration from conquest/Discovery/Ect., it heralds in new technological eras and feats of wonders... not to mention the construction of Wonders of the World.

In the end you'll have a file which shows as a pageant your civ's history, and you can view it to reminiss or share it to gloat... perhaps it could even be a screen saver... and if Firaxis reads this, it would make a great demo loop!

Just my 1/50th of a buck.

[Ilkuul]

quote: The Diplomat: It would be cool to see a map with colors showing the expansion of your borders over time. The player needs to look at it, and say "wow, look at how big my empire has become!" Akron: Another possibility that may make the game more interesting is the naming of regions of land...

All the suggestions here are really good, but the above two really jumped out at me. Diplomat's idea of a map view showing your own territory (and that of other civs, where known) is something that I've wondered about for a long time -- it's great to see someone else expressing the same thought! I've envisaged it as an alternative "political" map: i.e., you would have a button alongside the main map screen that would toggle between the normal "geographical" or "terrain" view, and a "political" view with different colours shading the areas occupied by the various civs. As Diplomat says, this would really add to the 'epic' nature of the game, to be able to see your borders expanding (or contracting!) as the game progresses.

And Akron's idea of being able to add your own names to map features is superb! That would really give a sense of ownership and involvement with your civ. This was a feature of one of the early versions of SimCity that I greatly appreciated. I'm not sure if they still have it, but you could name a suburb of your city, and a little sign would appear on the map. How much more emotionally-involving it would be to see that the enemy have stationed troops on "the Rockies", rather than on "that chain of mountains near Denver"!

I believe this kind of emotional involvement with your civ -- as shown by these and many other suggestions in this thread -- together with the grand sweep of 6000 years of history, is what really gives an 'epic' feel to Civ. If we get bored and blase and bogged down in the mechanics of the game, it's because somewhere along the line we've lost our emotional involvement.


[This message has been edited by Ilkuul (edited April 04, 2001).]

[Maccabee2]

The person who posted this was right on:

About making the game more epic i actually think three easy-implemented features is a must:
1. More demographics
2. More random events like plagues and disasters
3. More ancient turns

Thank you for making the point about more ancient turns. I feel that that period is too quickly rushed through. (Perhaps I'm biased in favor of the ancient period. It is my favorite era of history.)

[Cyclotron]

I think as more ancient turns, there should be more middle age terms, and more industrial turns... heck, just more turns!

I think that Civ2 went too fast, and that everyone always tried to rush to conscription and stuff so they wouldn't have to waste money on musketeers. In truth, these periods of history lasted quite a long time. A player should be forced to use and build a standing army of the current units if he wants to be or par with everyone else, and this is done by making the ages have more turns.

[Maccabee2]

Stuff 2 was the one who posted that earlier list of 3 major items needed for the "epicness."
If he will permit me to expound a little on his idea of major catastrophes, I would like to point out a few interesting vagaries of history that might, if integrated into code, might make the game a little less predictable and a little more exciting.
Too often a civilization (human or AI), by luck of placement of his first settler in relation to rivers or natural resources, accelerates his "curve" of ascension by being the first to build a crucial wonder, further accelerating his civ past the rest until they can't catch up. I think that something more than the progression of technology should be able to end a wonder or its effect.
I proffer the following idea:

Let there be each turn after a city is built a chance of natural catastrophe, depending on geography as follows:
1. City on river: flooding, say 1 in 20 (odds for flood could increase the farther downriver the city sits)
2. City near mountain range: Earthquake, say 1 in 100 (odds for quake could increase with the length of the mountain range. This would be consistent with the tendency of seismic fault lines to create long moutain ranges, like the Pacific "Ring of Fire".
3. City near longest mountain ranges: volcanic activity, a flow or even more destructive eruption with blast (say 1 in 500, but with much worse consequences)
4. City on plains: Tornado (say 1 in 10, but much less damaging)

The logic for this lies in the historical trend that the same geographic locations that help a civ grow faster (rivers, mineral rich mountains, fertile plains) also put "speed bumps" in the path of their growth (all the catastrophes mentioned above.) A natural catastrophe would destroy certain city improvements and reduce the city's population, requiring them to be rebuilt and repopulate over time. Below are a few examples of Wonders being destroyed by natural catastrophes:
Lighthouse of Alexandria: destroyed by earthquake
Great Library of Alexandria: while many scholars continue to repeat that it was burned by the Romans, it is much more likely to have burned from the fires that inevitably follow an earthquake. Alexandria has been shown by recent archaeological discoveries to have been rebuilt many times following earthquakes.
Temple of Jupiter (at Athens?): destroyed by earthquake
Temple of Artemis: arson (okay, so its not natural, but a nut with a torch is still a catastrophe)
Hanging Gardens: flood? I'm not sure on this one, but since it was made of mud bricks and built on a flood plain, this makes sense.
Tomb of King Mausoles(sorry if I misspelled his name): earthquake
Colossus of Rhodes: earthquake after standing for less than 60 years

What do you think?

Perhaps in a later post we might discuss the possibility of plagues.
[This message has been edited by Maccabee2 (edited April 05, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Maccabee2 (edited April 05, 2001).]

[Maccabee2]

Diplomat, I think your idea (below) is excellent!

I just thought of another idea:
what about having faces and pictures with your cities' governors? This would make the game a little more personal. When you get a mesage about that city, instead of just a generic message, it could be a little message from the governor, like:
"Mr. President, my city of Milano is experiencing a famine. I request some help immediately!
signed Gov. Sanchez."
Also, if a city rebels, instead of a generic message, you would get a message from the governor. For example:
"The people of Thebes are tired of your policies. You care nothing for our city. I am their new leader. We are no longer part of your empire. If you attack us, we will defend ourselves. So, leave us in peace!
signed Gov. Ross."

The player would feel like "Aargh, the traitor! I can't believe that Ross is betraying me!"

This would make the game more personal and get the player more involved emotional, thus contributing to a more epic game!

------------------
No permanent enemies, no permanent friends.

[Maccabee2]

Say, my quotes aren't coming out blue! Forgive my ignorance, how do I put someone's quote in blue? I don't want to risk anyone thinking another's ideas are my own.

[Maccabee2]

Cyclotron, very good point!
quote: "A player should be forced to use and build a standing army of the current units if he wants to be or par with everyone else, and this is done by making the ages have more turns."

I agree heartily. If we can't convince Firaxis to incorporate more turns (or at least the option to slow down time and thus increase the number of turns), then perhaps we could counterbalance this with some code that increases the likelihood of barbarian attack or AI attack the more backwards or outdated one's armies are.

[Adm.Naismith]

quote: Originally posted by Maccabee2 on 04-06-2001 12:12 AM Say, my quotes aren't coming out blue! Forgive my ignorance, how do I put someone's quote in blue? I don't want to risk anyone thinking another's ideas are my own.

Easy question . Quoting can be automatic if you click on that little button un the upper right of the post you want to quote (I've just done that, replying your message). It will add all the original post (please cut unnecessary parts, as netiquette required) with a reference.

If you want to do it manually (e.g. you are quoting inside a different thread) you must start the quoting with a UBB control code, write your quote, then end quoting with the closing control code.

The codes are the word quote written inside square bracket to start, the word /quote inside square bracket to end.

If you look at the upper part of the main Forum Page you can see the link to FAQ, select it and follow the next link about UBB code (and the others about smiling, if you like), to see all the available UBB features.

------------------
Admiral Naismith AKA mcostant

[yin26]

Also, any time you want to see how somebody did some fancy thing in a post, click the "edit" button and you can see all the tags. BONUS: Figure out how I did the underline.

[jglidewell]

quote: Originally posted by Maccabee2 on 04-05-2001 11:54 PM Great Library of Alexandria: while many scholars continue to repeat that it was burned by the Romans, it is much more likely to have burned from the fires that inevitably follow an earthquake. Alexandria has been shown by recent archaeological discoveries to have been rebuilt many times following What do you think?

I second the motion, and if the wonder be destroyed it could be rebuilt by any civ.