Easy quick question about destroyers

[planetfall]

Been awhile since played with default preferences.

Can destroyers see subs
-- in Civ3 ?
-- in PTW ?


I think the answers are No and Yes but looking for confirmation.

== PF

[CerberusIV]

AFAIK the answers are no and no, I had to edit destroyers to "see invisible" in both PTW and civ3.

[planetfall]

I know I edited "see invisible" in one or both, but could not remember for sure and I am playing an old civ3 game now under default rules.

Why not see invisible I can't figure out unless Firaxis wanted to leave something for AEGIS. Uboat captains had a different experience with destroyers.

== PF

[Jaybe]

Destroyers not being able to spot subs also gives added value to having your own subs, game-wise. It gives destroyers and battleships an achilles heel, which is good for the game.

[Master Zen]

Ideally, I would let Destroyers be the Sub-hunters and take out that ability for AEGIS cruisers, it would be more realistic.

Even more ideally would be that AEGIS cruisers could carry Cruise Missiles or had special defense against aircraft like in Civ2. Otherwise they become rather reduntant.

[Datajack Franit]

So the answer is No, No?

[Mad Bomber]

The answer is NO and NO

Raguil:

You can mod Ageis Cruisers to use Tactical Missles in the Editor. They should have an air defense also, but all modern units should. However do to the air defense attacks being either a hit and your dead or miss and no damage approach, allowing all units a defense against air would lead to a quick extermination of an airforce

[PrinceBimz]

When researched, Destroyers make up most of my navy. Costing only 120 shields to a Battleships 200 most of my coastal cities can produce them quickly and nearly twice as fast as building a Battleship. I can deploy a large number of them fairly fast. So, I still use my Destroyers for sinking subs. I just attack them when they are spotted. Spotting them is not too hard if I have a few Destroyers to scout for them.

[Jaybe]

... Spotting them is not too hard if I have a few Destroyers to scout for them.

You mean "Subs" to scout for them?

[bongo]

Just cover the ocean with destroyers and you will 'scout' for subs in a very efficent manner.

[Patroklos]

I don't think it is accurate to say all modern units deserve air defence, as all modern units today don't have any or not to any great extent. I know this because my roomate is an Air Defense Artillery officer in the army, and he says that all they are really good for is anti helicoptor or using there heavy ADA guns on ground emplacments. The Aegis cruiser, however (and I know this because I am in the Navy), was built and missioned as an Air defender for battlegroups, that is their primary job. I woyuld say there should be two air defence units in civ3, the Aegis Cruiser and a mobile Sam.

[PrinceBimz]

Originally posted by bongo
Just cover the ocean with destroyers and you will 'scout' for subs in a very efficent manner.

Thats exactly what I do. If its just a narrow passway I only need a few destroyers to do it. I don't always stack my destroyers on top of my transports, I usually have them scout ahead to see what is out there. That way I know the area is cleared to pass through with my loaded transports. In the end its like follow the leader. Sometimes though a sub can and will sneak pass my destroyer escorts. It all depends on how many I have for cover. If its a large ocean I need 3 destroyers, one in front the other two on the sides and my transports in the middle. Forming an effective convoy fleet.

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by Patroklos
I don't think it is accurate to say all modern units deserve air defence, as all modern units today don't have any or not to any great extent. I know this because my roomate is an Air Defense Artillery officer in the army, and he says that all they are really good for is anti helicoptor or using there heavy ADA guns on ground emplacments. The Aegis cruiser, however (and I know this because I am in the Navy), was built and missioned as an Air defender for battlegroups, that is their primary job. I woyuld say there should be two air defence units in civ3, the Aegis Cruiser and a mobile Sam.

If you shoot alot of ADA guns/missiles at enemy air, you might well scare them off or at least spoil their aim. Works better on forces not well trained/motivated. That has always been the primary role of air defense. Actually knocking them down is icing on the cake.

For purposes of Civ, air defense success destroys the air unit, it does not just enhance chances for a bombardment miss. For this reason I chose to just increase the defense strength of Aegis to 12.

[bongo]

If you knock them down they will not return for a second try will they Scaring them off or making them miss is of course a good #2

I believe that AA-guns, even before guided missiles were invented, mostly were used to boost morale. I mean, just how many rounds did you have to fire to down a singe plane?

[wilbill]

A lot. During WWI when the Germans' Zeppelins and Gotha bombers (4-engine biplanes!) scared London by dropping a few badly aimed bombs, the British reacted by deploying a huge number of AA guns and blazing away night after night. After the war, it was determined that London suffered more damage from falling flak from their own guns than it did from German bombs.