Civilization 4 - Making New Game

[brianshapiro]

If I make a detailed list of suggestions here for civ 4, do you think Firaxis designers will take them seriously
Since civ1 was out, and I was in high school Ive been thinking of ways to improve the game, make it more realistic, etc., and I think I have some good solutions. I dont want to detail them here if firaxis doesnt take them seriously or unless i work with firaxis , since this has been somewhat personal to me.
If there are other people like me, maybe we can join and work to make a game ourselves..
The suggestions I would give include things that would add an element to the game where the people and economy and constructions operate somewhat independently of your decisions, there would be a resource/commodity transformation system and the culture (inmcluding tech advance) would be closely linked to the starting l ocation and resources (yes! quasi-marxist), the game would be organized in provincial areas that join and exit confederations , war would be more manageable, etc. all without making it feel un-civ or complicated.
but if anybody is interested in making it with me, and including their ideas, or has some suggestion about how i can present them to firaxis please post

brian

[Master Zen]

I have constantly stated that my dream game would be one with the empire-building characteristics of the Civilization series with the wargaming elements of Panzer General. Being such a simple but addictive wargame (PG), I would not find it hard to implement a combat sistem like that to the Civilization series.

[Skanky Burns]

Much before Civ 3 was released, the people of Apolyton put together a massive list of ideas that they thought would be a good idea for future civilization games. Firaxis printed out that list, and all their designers read through it. Some of the ideas made it into Civ3, most didn't - but they were at least viewed by the developers.

There is a future civilization games forum here on Apolyton for discussion of future civ games.

For those interested, there is also an archive of the Civ 3 list for Firaxis, also on Apolyton.
(both forums can be reached from the forum jump menu down the bottom of the page, too)

[Willem]

It never hurts to post ideas. Firaxis does prowl this forum so there's always a possibility they might see some merit in an idea. Just don't expect anything.

Oh yeah, and be polite about. Ranters will be ignored very quickly.

[ktaek]

My humble suggestions:

- New Combat System
This is one area where Civ3 still feels like an old boardgame. Basically you move tiles around the world on a grid, and you resolve things one at a time.

A simple update of the system to something like HOMM or MOO would add a lot to the game.

- Unit Evolution
Civ has military units simple spawn out of nowhere upon getting a tech. This isn't how things really happened, and it's also not as much fun. A tank is created from many different inventions/technologies working together.

AC and MOO had systems where individual technologies let you improve aspects of a unit. This is far closer to reality, and lets you customize your units.

- More Open/Randomized Tech Tree
This could be an option, and it's something that would add much to the replayability, as much as having the random world generator vs. playing the real continents.

- Military = People
This is something that always bugged me. Military units are made form shields instead of food? Food production was is indeed a huge factor in early societal development, and making military units out of shields instead of food lets early warmongers essentially ignore that limitation.

While shields (materials) do play a part in military creation, it is still negligible even in modern times compared to the time required to create a mature, adult human. 20 years to create an adult. How long to chop down a tree to give him a bow? How long to mine some ore and give him a spear or sword? Weeks at the very most, and more likely days.

Shields have their place in building Wonders, Libraries, Temples, the Hoover Dam, etc.. But shields for soldiers?

If military was limited primarily by food, this would automatically solve the early UU rushes which is (unfortunately) the most effective way to play Civ3.

[Tattila the Hun]

Simple solution, basic infantry unit would reguire 1 pop, and a battleship or similar some more.

In the game Settlers, the soldiers were recruited from the growing populace, then suplied with shield and sword, some gold and beer , then sent to occupy huts.

Shields to make the weapons, food to make the men.

[Swissy]

Re: Civilization 4 - Making New Game

Originally posted by brianshapiro
If I make a detailed list of suggestions here for civ 4, do you think Firaxis designers will take them seriously

What makes you think that Firaxis will be given a chance to develope Civ4? Infogrammes had to use Firaxis for Civ3; Firaxis was signed by Hasbro Interactive and Infogrammes bought Hasbro Interactive. Since Infogrammes owns the "Civilization" name for compter/console games, they can choose any developer they want. Considering the bugginess of the initial releases of both Civ3 and PTW; Infogrammes may want to go with a house that has a better track record. Whether they can get Sid Meier to go along with not using Firaxis for Civ4 is problematic; they do not have to put Sid's name on the game, if Sid wants to get paid anything, he'll go along with whatever Infogrammes desires.

[Willem]

Originally posted by ktaek


- Military = People
This is something that always bugged me. Military units are made form shields instead of food? Food production was is indeed a huge factor in early societal development, and making military units out of shields instead of food lets early warmongers essentially ignore that limitation.

You can do that now if you want to, just go into the editor.

[Willem]

Re: Re: Civilization 4 - Making New Game

Originally posted by Swissy
Considering the bugginess of the initial releases of both Civ3 and PTW; Infogrammes may want to go with a house that has a better track record.

It was probably Infogrames that told Firaxis to release the game before it was ready. Both times (Civ3, PTW), they wanted to cash in on the Christmas rush.

[alva]

Originally posted by Willem


You can do that now if you want to, just go into the editor.

Doesn't this kill of the AI, IIRC I read somewhere people tried this, and basically the AI would starve itself to death.

IE; the AI can't handle this modification.

[Willem]

Originally posted by alva


Doesn't this kill of the AI, IIRC I read somewhere people tried this, and basically the AI would starve itself to death.

IE; the AI can't handle this modification.

I tried this as well and discovered that I was being left in the dust by the AI. I'd have a tiny empire in comparison to theirs. It seemed to me that if there was a population cost, the AI would default to Settlers or Workers, though that's only speculation on my part.

[alva]

So they hardly build any units...? That's more or less what I meant, what happens after the AI stops rexing?

[Master Zen]

Re: Re: Re: Civilization 4 - Making New Game

Originally posted by Willem


It was probably Infogrames that told Firaxis to release the game before it was ready. Both times (Civ3, PTW), they wanted to cash in on the Christmas rush.

Yep, I think most of the time it's the publisher, not the developer to blame for buggy games, ESPECIALLY if they come out during the last few months of the year.

[brianshapiro]

ok ill start a website for this i dont want to start at the new civilizations forum because its probably overflowing with good/bad suggestions. i want to be discriminate and filter things that arent thought out.k i remember reading the civ2 suggestion list and there were many things that were silly. one requiirement would be , dont just add more units / buildings unless there is a thought out reason why . its not a wishlist for santa claus

[ruby_maser]

What I hope more than anything that Firaxis doesn't do is over-emphasize the graphics or the interface too much.

Obviously, both could be improved, expanded, and tweaked, but I would much prefer that the basics of any possible Civ 4 not be completely overhauled. That would just be redundant and detract from what is most important: more options, more depth, more realism in gameplay. The look of the game is secondary to that, for me.