I am no longer your moderator...

[Tiberius]

My overall impression about all this is that MarkG cares more about the developers than the community, and Mark, before you ask, yes, I read it carefully, and the whole discussion about private messages and old topics and the rest of it looks like an excuse for banning Yin because he wrote something sensitive for Firaxis' eyes/ears.

Finally, beyond all this Apolyton is an enjoyable site so lets make peace and hope/work/dream/ask for the greatest, funiest and most enjoyable (and bugless ) Civ game ever!

Oh yes, I almost forgot that I've read earlier a great proposal: a spell checker on Apolyton!

[Jeje2]

I am very disappointed after reading this.
Yin, hope you continue to post here despite what happened...


Since this forum is private, we have to respect the leaders.
I'll make it sort.

Who's right and who's wrong does it matter anymore?
But I find it quite disturbing that this was public.
As tmarcl wrote it, my father thought me the same thing in two fraises.
1. If you want to praise someone, make it in front of as many co-workers as possibly.
2. If you have to haul someone, always do it in private.

I hope you can learn something from these events and we all can continue posting here.


Thank you Yin for everything.

[yin26]

Above all, I don't want to leave some bad impression. Although I disagree with Markos on the way he handled this, I also could have helped avoid it. I think this was just our absurdly irresponsible way of saying: "Moderator position now open."

[Jeje2]

quote: Originally posted by yin26 on 03-07-2001 03:06 AM "Moderator position now open."

Now how about an public election, are there any candidates?
[This message has been edited by Jeje2 (edited March 07, 2001).]

[yin26]

We have many good candidates, but I would simply stress that being a moderator has very few perks (so you can close a thread, big deal!) in exchange for a great deal of headaches (no, you HAVE to close the thread...).

[OldWarrior_42]

quote: you would see that i didnt have a problem with him starting a discussion on bugs(the proof is the poll i myself started today) but with his choice to revive a dead issue(that of the jkm article)

You say you didn't have a problem with him starting a discussion on bugs,Markos.....but actually by you saying he revived a dead issue, you are taking away his right to start a discussion on bugs. That story may also only be a dead issue to you. Doeas not how everyone else feel about the matter, count? Apparently not. He used that article to start his discussion on bugs.

That statement of yours just seems very contradictory to me.

And I don't always agree with Yin either, nor him with me...but I respect his right to his opinion the same as I do for say...Imran. I disagree with Imran a whole lot more than I do with other posters but I respect his right to his opinion as well.

Markos, you just should have tried to handle it better and more professionally. Many times I see you talk about professionalism, but then you just fall into arguements and traps and then get mad and "take your bat and ball" and go home.
Silly if you ask me and I know you didn't ask...

[yin26]

Man...the article is public knowledge. What a silly premise, Markos. OW is right. Are you now to dictate the "Apolyton Approved" way to start a topic? Careful there, friend.

[MarkG]

quote: Originally posted by OldWarrior_42 on 03-07-2001 04:24 AM you are taking away his right to start a discussion

in case you didnt notice, he restarted the thread as a simple poster and i had no problem with it. so what right am i taking away from him?

[MarkG]

quote: Originally posted by yin26 on 03-07-2001 04:37 AM Are you now to dictate the "Apolyton Approved" way to start a topic?

for moderators appointed by me? you bet!

i think it was darkstar who said that you cant associate the act of a volunteer with apolyton. so if ming decides to start banning people for no reason, i have no responsibility for it? it would be nice but it would never be so....

[OldWarrior_42]

Obviously you miss the point by what I intended to show to you through your initial statement. You read with literal translation. Read again or not. I don't wish to explain it.

[MarkG]

quote: Originally posted by OldWarrior_42 on 03-07-2001 04:24 AM You say you didn't have a problem with him starting a discussion on bugs,Markos.....but actually by you saying he revived a dead issue, you are taking away his right to start a discussion on bugs.

as long as he is an apolyton moderator, his right to revive such issues as this article, no matter what good intention he may had, is not something acceptable by me or Dan.

somehow i'm begining to feel that this and similar "desires" of me and dan would not be accepted by yin sooner or later....

[OldWarrior_42]

Then the next logical step for you to have followed would have been one of acting professional by telling him privately that you felt he was out of place in posting that article again as long as he was a moderator and that you would like for him to not do it anymore as long as he wishes to remain a moderator.

Your PM was very demeaning and reeked of trolling on your position as well. Calling someone in roundabout ways was exactly the image portrayed by the disclosure of that message by Yin.

If you say he worded it wrong and you didn't print it to him in that manner, then please disclose just how you did post it. Otherwise it seems to me you were baiting him or just picking a fight and looking for a reason to can him.

Or getting insulted and "taking your bat and ball". :P~~~~~~

[OldWarrior_42]

And your initial statement should have read... "I did't have a problem with him starting a discussion on bugs as long as he was not a moderator . But since he is, then it is my opinion that his choice of reviving a dead issue(as I see it) will not be allowed."

The way you wrote it is what I felt was (and I stress the words...the way I felt) contradictory.

[Adm.Naismith]

Now I don't want to repeat my first post on this thread. I only want to underline that:
1) has been mentioned as bad to quote the full JM article. While this can be bad for bandwith, I think this is the most fair way to quote so sensible argument.
2) The article is old, but JM never posted a different opinion AFAIK (and surely he can read and reply, if he wants), so it's not as he changed his mind and someone still use old interview to "fake" JM point of view.
3) Private mail is that, private but, as far as someone quote a private message in a way that no one can know who was the original sender, and the quoted part (as full as possible, see point 1) don't point to damage someone, I think it's acceptable.
When I red the message quoted by Yin I supposed was by a flamer, not by MarkG, until he replyed uncovering the whole "can of worms" .

I don't think all this is a good event for this forum, but I worry it's going worse and worse every time Yin and MarkG reply.

Please, STOP and cool down! It's almost like seeing two friends of mine insulting each other. It make me feel very, very sad

Almost as sad as would be a Civ III full of bugs

------------------
Admiral Naismith AKA mcostant

[Jeje2]

quote: Originally posted by MarkG on 03-07-2001 05:33 AM as long as he is an apolyton moderator, his right to revive such issues as this article, no matter what good intention he may had, is not something acceptable by me or Dan.

Care to explain this in more detail?...

Are you here saying that since you (and possibly) moderators may receive information before official release, you consider it as a bad policy of you and moderators to talk:
a) about classified material (nonpublic)
b) negativly about them.

You also mentined some rules for a moderator.
(Rules are good, just as long it is in written form.)
Are these rules given in writing (or email) to each moderator?
Are these for us to examine? (Can't right now remember seeing it here.)

Do you have a place for moderators and you to talk privatly about moderating? (If not, there might be a need)


Just asking so there wouldn't be a need for next time


P.S. About mentioning it as an old topic. I don't remember reading it and since there has been some talk about the subject I do consider it as quite good and actual topic... (Btw. haven't read Morris article jet, only replys about yins departure)