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**yin26** · March 6, 2001, 05:08

I see. So part of my duties as the Civ3 moderator is to live and breathe the OT for the latest "hot" management decision? Please...

**MarkG** · March 6, 2001, 05:19

no, i just gave you an example of another case of a private message being posted, without the message being mine...

now if you mean to tell me that you never thought that private messages are private and (especially a moderator) should not post one publicly....
[This message has been edited by MarkG (edited March 06, 2001).]

**yin26** · March 6, 2001, 05:32

So after literally hundreds of hours of my personal time spent helping you grease the developers, this is the best you can do? Not even a warning? Sad, Markos. But we see your true character in this.

**ShiningOne** · March 6, 2001, 05:35

This is getting bizarre... does indeed seem like a kangaroo court has just been convienned.

I take issue with the assertion that posting the entire article is somehow worse than quoting a line or a paragraph from it. With the entire article, JKMs comments can be seen in context all the way through. As an experienced poster, I'm sure Yin would be at least a little concerned with letting the target have their full say, instead of trying to make them seem worse than they are.

Posting PMs isn't nice. However, MarkG's followup comments have a tone that isn't exactly pleasant either. This does seem like just a convient reason to remove Yin from his position, which has then been justified to an (in)suffient degree (depending on your point of view). Rather than the obvious breaking of a well established, clearly communicated rule.

**MikeH** · March 6, 2001, 05:37

I didn't know that it was an offense to post a private message.

Is it in the FAQ because if it is I missed it. If it isn't it obviously should be. What about posting part of an e-mail someone sends? That'd have to be the same thing I guess.

As for yin posting this article this is one of the most interesting threads I've read on this forum for a long time. I think it's a good debate to stimulate. I also don't think anyone 'attacked' a developer in this thread. This is one of the most reasonable debates I've read on this subject. Normally they are a lot more... er... blunt.

**MarkG** · March 6, 2001, 06:09

quote:

Originally posted by yin26 on 03-06-2001 04:32 AM
So after literally hundreds of hours of my personal time spent helping you grease the developers, this is the best you can do? Not even a warning? Sad, Markos. But we see your true character in this.

you make a thread that i have a problem with. i see it and reply to it with my opinion, but you delete the thread. i send you a note about it, i believe showing that i didnt like it. to be accurate, i sent you a total of two messages, geting a reply only to one

you then make this thread. i sent you a pm to discuss it privately with you and leave it "alive" and open. what do you do? post the private message in public(and in two forums) and talk about "brave men"...

what more do want me to do? make a choice
- edit your post. an administrator editing the post of a moderator? ridicullous
- give you a public warning. even more ridicullous
- give you a private warning. and then what? you could either post that one too(!) or agree with it and edit the post with the pm. still there is always someone how will notice such things(the post was on the thread for several hours) and there is no way it would end there.

mike, if you expect from a faq to tell you that private messages are private, what can i say....

**yin26** · March 6, 2001, 06:17

Yes, I quickly deleted a previous thread after considering my position as moderator. Does that not reflect my intention to keep Apolyton a good place for developers? Hmmm Also, if you had wanted to engage me in an honest dialogue, I doubt calling me a "troll" was the best method. Agreed?

Finally, I think my thread about The Myth of a Bugless Civ3 is one of the best ones we've had. There was no attack. Sorry to say, but bugs are a way of life with games these days, but you act as if even discussing the topic somehow jeopardizes Apolyton's relationship with developers.

I would remind you that on the other half of that coin is the relationship you must have with the gamers as well. Burn one and you'll burn both.

**MarkG** · March 6, 2001, 07:25

quote:

Originally posted by yin26 on 03-06-2001 05:17 AM
Does that not reflect my intention to keep Apolyton a good place for developers?

it does. but when you discontinue the discussion i started, a couple days later start a similar thread and then post private message, it kind of ruins the previous image.

quote:

I doubt calling me a "troll" was the best method. Agreed?

i dint call you a troll. i said that the thread you made would fit to someone with a troll title, not a moderator one

quote:

There was no attack.

you repost a whole article which has been generally condemned by the community and ask for the community it's opinion on the article("Is he right? Your thoughts, please...") again, 18 months later!

quote:

Sorry to say, but bugs are a way of life with games these days, but you act as if even discussing the topic somehow jeopardizes Apolyton's relationship with developers.

hardly...we'had whole forums set up specifically to discuss bugs. we've had lists of bugs created in these forums. i've personally sent the smacx bug list to firaxis.

**the Apolyton Ayatollah** · March 6, 2001, 07:34

wow! Another Apolyton milestone! How much did Furaxle pay you, MarkG? Isn't the community worried about bug after the SMAC disaster? This is a REAL topic, not another blah blah how cool another Civ code recycled ripoff will be.
So continue with the Civ3 advertizing now ...

**Grandpa Troll** · March 6, 2001, 07:43

quote:

Originally posted by yin26 on 03-05-2001 07:53 PM
By the way, I just recieved this interesting personal message:

Now, if you ask me, calling me a "Troll" regarding this is a bit extreme. I wonder if that person has the courage to actually post his thoughts here for the rest of Apolyton to see. Hmmm?

What YIN a TROLL???

Say it aint so Yin..I am a Troll and didnt see it coming..but I just bet that there is a little Troll in all of us?

Hard to be in a leadership position Yin old buddy..and have opinions..kinda like being married..ya have to lose your
balls!!..J/K!!!

AS Tom Hanks said in Saving Private Ryan.."I complain up..not down!"..pretty much management has this unspoken code of ethics as well as keeping bedroom secrets..well..secret! They still are naughty..and true..but we have to keep them secret!

Just a bit of personal point of view old buddy!

Troll

**MarkG** · March 6, 2001, 07:59

in case you didnt notice Ayatollah, the thread was left and is still open for discussion...

and just for you, here is our new poll http://apolyton.net/cgi-bin/ubb-poll...howBooth&id=22

**yin26** · March 6, 2001, 08:09

LOL! Well, Markos, I gotta give you some credit for putting up that poll! HA! I almost forgive you.

**the Apolyton Ayatollah** · March 6, 2001, 08:13

So now you have to demoderate yourself, Markos? That's amazing ...

**MarkG** · March 6, 2001, 08:15

hehe yin, i think i've covered all opinions, right?
(that's my job after all)

Ayatollah, i have no problem with the discussion of bugs. re-read my posts

[This message has been edited by MarkG (edited March 06, 2001).]

**MarkG** · March 6, 2001, 08:19

and i dont see you voting yet....

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