Let's Make Our Own Game

[The Viceroy]

Pingu,

You don't have to be a programmer to have good idea's.. 90% of any project is thrashing out what you really want .. and the coding part should be a relativly minor part .. if the requirements are correct that is

So I encourage you .. take part .. and add your idea's and thoughts to it.


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"Wherever wood floats, you will find the British" . Napoleon

[quinns]

Well you are quite welcome Pingu! It is good to hear that someone else feels that the Bucky Ball depiction of a world is the most practical we can hope for in spherical discrete representation.

And special thanks goes to The Viceroy, Mark Everson, Ron Hiler, and Vet Legion for their very encouraging comments! I will look more deeply into the Clash of Civilizations, Mark, as I agree with your comments about too much diversity ruining the collective effort.

Ryan, I thank you for your words of "luck" (I think ). I know you are being somewhat cynical, but I still thank you for your comments.

This particular game, I'm talking about starting, would be quite different from the original Civ style games. Here are some basic concepts:

-- "Bucky Ball" Tiled Hexagon and Pentagon Spherical Representation of All Planetary Bodies.
-- Earth, Solar System, and Stellar Human Advancement (possible Alien incorporation).
-- More Generalized Representation of Societies and Terrain (as opposed to detailed).
-- More Strategic Military Representation (as opposed to tactical).
-- Expanding and Contracting Time Factor (primarily dependant upon military actions and technological developments).
-- Time Span: From the First Appearance of Mankind on Earth to About the 25th Century A.D. (Anything beyond that starts to turn into a "fantasy game", in my opinion).

Comments welcomed, of course!

[This message has been edited by quinns (edited March 02, 2001).]

[Elemental]

I think that the Freeciv team would rightly take issue with your assertion that it is a 'pirated copy of Civilization 2'. Freeciv has been built from the ground up and works on a whole range of platforms - it's also, as far as I can tell, the most advanced open source Civ-clone out there and has a wonderful community around it.

I wouldn't recommend denigrating efforts such as Freeciv and if you have a look at their roadmap, you can see that they're planning to go far beyond what Civ2 is. Check them out at www.freeciv.org.

However, I admire your sentiments and look forward to seeing your completed game.

[Blade Runner]

Quinns,

After reading your post I start to think: How can we do something together, but the same time everybody can develop and finish his/her pet idea to product? Is it possible? I think I know a sollution for this problem. If every designer and programmer start to work together to create a kind of "Turn Based Strategy Game Developper Kit", than the 80% of the work can be finished together, and every little team or individual can put the rest 20% without too much effort. The developper teams can share the copyright for the engine and can sell it for profit. Of course every team member, who worked hardly to put together this kit, can use it for free.

Blade

[quinns]

Right, right, you're absolutely right. I shouldn't denegrate anybody's effort. I take back the "pirated" allegation to FreeCiv. I guess I just took the dismissive remarks earlier too defensively. That was (paraphrased): "FreeCiv is EXACTLY the same thing that you're trying to do, so don't bother trying anything new."

FreeCiv is not, at all, similar to what we are trying to do with this new game (or series of games) via this "Gaming Company Without Walls". I made some assumptions because FreeCiv actually says that it is "Civilization II" for free! That led me to believe that someone disassebled the Civ II code, removed the Compact Disc requirement code, then reassembled it while adding compatiblity to other platforms. I read some of the description of the FreeCiv, but I didn't play it, so I don't really know.

You mean somebody actually built this whole FreeCiv from scratch without using any of the existing Civ II code or graphics?? And did it for free?? Wow! That is amazing! My hat's off to you all at FreeCiv!

And thanks for the good wishes!

[quinns]

Interesting concept Blade Runner! It seems there is enough interest to move on to the next step. Let me see if I can come with a fair method for establishing a good team. In the mean time, anybody else interested in possibly becoming part of this "Gaming Company Without Walls" (that won't be the name of the company, by the way ), go ahead and post here. So far, we have 4 or 5 people that might be interested.

[Darkknight]

Sounds like it could work. Do you need any graphical artists? I could make videos using an IKA skeleton system in Blender. www.blender.nl It's a really great 3D image rendering, Game Making(FPS only sorry ) and animation making program which is FREE for download weighing in at 1.5mb well worth the time. It takes a while to get used to it but it's "easy" enough after that. So I could make videos and render images(units and stuff).

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" mind over body "

[quinns]

Well, we sure do need graphic artists! However, we are still in the infancy of this company and I think it is very important to discuss potential future compensation. We shall remain on this forum, for the time being, because we have had such good response here.

I know Viceroy talked about hierarchies and business plans, and I agree. But even before that, I think it is very important to explain how I think the world wide future payment for services would be divided up amongst us all. This is to provide both a motivation to the highly skilled individuals out there to join us, while at the same time, removing some doubt about how you will be paid for your work. I have to write this down while it is in my head, though it may be a little premature for this type of discussion.

This is only a proposal at this stage and not an official statement:

Compensation Proposal

1. Everyone is compensated at EXACTLY the same rate. That is, no matter if you are the president of the company, or a doctor who currently makes 500 thousand dollars a year at his present job, or a proof reader who makes 30 thousand a year, your hourly contribution to this company will be counted exactly the same. This may not seem fair to some of you very talented folks out there who may do excellent work. But remember, an hour's work is an hour's work whether you are cleaning toilets or doing brain surgery. (I hope this doesn't sound too Communistic )

2. No money will be paid out until we begin releasing products to the public and then begin generating a profit on those products.

3. ALL profit will be divided up amongst the workers (all of us) as follows: Individual Profit = (Total Profit to be Paid Out) * (Total Approved Hours Worked by the Individual Since Inception) / (Total Approved Hours Worked by the Entire Company Since Inception). For example, if someone worked on a project in 2001 for 100 hours, but then left the company in 2002, in 2005 those hours would still be used in the calculation of the profit for that individual, (i.e. like perpetual residuals, although depleted as more hours are added by other workers over the years).

4. All required money will be generated via bank loans (with approval from the Council). No investment money, from anyone, will initially be accepted into the company. Interest payments to banks will be paid as "expenses" before profit is calculated of course.

*** End Proposal (to be revised in the future).

I wish a financial expert reading this, would comment on the above proposal. I'm sure something like this has been used in other companies.

Best regards to you all!

[Darkknight]

Looks good but how'll you be sure someone actually did work the hours.(I dont mean to sound like an untrusting pig )You should set some time for everyone currently involved to meet and discuss essenetial things like this.I've got nothing much to do (after next weekend exams are over till the summer ) so I've got time to waste on testing images and stuff just i need to know will we be using units roughly the same as Civ2 Ctp2 or will they look more like armies of units(more then one) or what. I might as well be doing something with blender

[Chronus]

Hi, again, quinns:

Gee, I guess you were serious.

Hmmm . . . I am very skeptical. However, I don't want to blast this idea with negative thoughts. Instead, please accept this posting as my sincere "I wish you and your team all the best" statement. I really do hope you folks succeed :-)

[quinns]

Thanks Chronus!

That's a good question, Dark Knight. All this will be voted on by an Administrative Council that we will establish soon. But this is how I see the work hours verification process working:

Hours will first be "approved" by a Production Council in minimum of one hour increments, before any work is actually performed. The worker, (we are all "workers" in this regard), will perform the work and send the "results" (however minimal) of the work back to the Production Council for review. Those hours are then credited to that worker, regardless of whether or not the Production Council likes the work. However, the Council may choose to discontinue any FUTURE "approved" hours to be allocated to that worker if they do not like their work.

[quinns]

We DEFINITELY can use your knowledge Wittlich! That was a perfect post regarding this -- BRIEF description of your best skills, plus a willingness to be part of the team -- great! I see you working as a consultant once we start to put the company together, with maybe some writing and grunt work (proof reading, editing, expediting, ... , all that unfun stuff...) if you are willing to do that sort of work also, that is.

If you don't mind me asking... What was your final rank? (Not that it matters as far as the game goes... just curious.)

Thanks for your interest!

[Darkknight]

I've been looking at the Pentagon tiles idea and I'm confused on how your going to put it together is it going to look like a sphere or will it be flat? Because when it is stretched out flat there are spaces between some tiles where they don't join together.


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" mind over body "

[wittlich]

Quinns, I am willing to work with/on anything that can help. As far as my final rank - Sergeant First Class (E-7). I could have stayed longer in the military, but 20 yrs was enough for me!

Concerning my military background, I was an Intelligence Analyst for those 20 years. During this time I was involved with scenerio writing for various military exercises, along with keep track of the political/social/military situation in various countries world-wide. For 6 of those years I worked at a computer wargaming facility - my responsibilies included digitizing real world terrain data into a Unix-based system (hex maps) - talk about monotonous! along with being the lead developer and instructor of an engineering model incorporated into the ground simulation system. Of my entire military career, I had the most fun during those 6 yrs at the Wargaming Facility.

[wittlich]

quote: Originally posted by Darkknight on 03-04-2001 03:48 PM I've been looking at the Pentagon tiles idea and I'm confused on how your going to put it together is it going to look like a sphere or will it be flat? Because when it is stretched out flat there are spaces between some tiles where they don't join together.

Darkknight, I don't know about how a 5-sided hex/tile would work. But when I worked at the wargaming facility, we used a 6-sided hex on a flat earth and it worked great...however, because of the 6 sides, you can move north, northeast, southeast, south, southwest and northwest - you couldn't move in a true east or west direction. For example, in order to move "west" from your current position, you would move north-west, then south-west to end up at the hex directly west from your original position.

As far as an actual sphere being laid flat, you're right...there would be "dead spaces." We ran into the same problem using real terrain data (maps) and incorporating them into the game database. Our solution was a creation of terrain hexes in those dead spaces. So even though the terrain data we used was based off of actual terrain, it wasn't exactly like the real-world terrain. There had to be a little "fudge factor" involved concerning Earths curvature.