Discussion on Existing Wonders

[colossus]

Thinking about the pyramid stuff, I guess the reasoning of Sid Mei's civ2 as: Egypt was known as the granary of the Ancient World, so the Egyptian wonder, Pyramid, should confer the benefits of granary. As it turned out, it became the most ridiculous of all wonders!

[Adm.Naismith]

Colossus, I just notice your:

quote: Colossus - expire with democracy

Please don't expire yourself!
- sorry, just kidding, but I can't resist.

On topic: I'm more for a complete revision for Wonder (in game) concept. As I red (and agree) months ago, wonders are usually a weak point for AI civ, so unbalancing game in favour of human players. Minor tweak are useless IMHO.

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Admiral Naismith AKA mcostant

[Optimizer]

I agree that the old wonders and their effects should be revised. I read in the Civ 3 Ideas list about the "World's Greatest" concept - that would be a good idea.

Wonders, that act as one certain improvement in each city, unbalance the game too much - they are excellent investment for a large civ, but don't yield much for a small one. A wonder should rather have effects just for that city.

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90% of the casualties in a 21st century war are civilians. Join the army!
[This message has been edited by Optimizer (edited February 23, 2001).]

[GaryGuanine]

The problem with that idea, Optimizer, is that many wonders are not city-based. How would Women's Suffrage affect one city? Or the Manhattan project?

Gary

[Sirotnikov]

I've got one Idea how would Manhatten project affect one city
heard of Hiroshima or Chernobil?

[colossus]

The discussion seems to peter out. Let me make some summary:

There are well established concensus about the problems of the following wonders:

Colossus - expire too late
Hanging Garden - too cheap too powerful
Pyramid - no one thinks it's a sensible wonder
Oracle - seems to expire as soon as it is built

Michaelangelo's Chapel - damn too powerful
King Richard's Crusade - similar to Oracle

Eiffel's Tower - useless in SP, useless in MP
Leonardo's Workshop - too powerful

SETI Program - too late to be useful
Apollo Program - not much incentive to build it, unless miles ahead in tech

[Optimizer]

Women's Suffrage should not be a wonder - rather a tech. It is neither built nor unique. Although I don't want to see Civ 3 without the Pyramids and the Great Wall, I hope that not all existing wonders or their effects are "sacred".

[Father Beast]

Manhattan Project: I don't like it, so let's make it so it's disadvantageous to build. Immediately makes nukes available to all civs with rocketry, and destroys the city that was building it.

No, seriously, give the civ that built it a headstart, like theben suggested. When I Build manhattan and the AI nukes me the next turn, it's as if the US built their bomb and japan nuked them first!!

we need some advantage for the apollo building civ, as well.

[Stuff2]

I have some suggestions for some of the modern wonders.

- Apollo program, your civ get the tech "space flight" for free and all other nations are available to research it if they have the prereq for it.
- Manhattan project, your civ get the "nuclear warfare" advance for free and all other nations with the right prereq are able to research "nuclear warfare" and "nuclear power".
- SETI program, gives you two free tech and opens up some advances for being able to research.