Unit Morale? A MUST!

[yin26]

I'm not quite sure how this would work in a TBS environment (I can't recall any good examples, but if you have any, please report), but the use of morale in Gettysburg! was fantastic. In fact, had morale NOT been part of the game, I think the game would have fallen way short of its mark.

In case you haven't played that game (an RTS Civil War game by Sid), his stroke of genius was to have your troops be heavily affected by morale. For example, if they are under cover of some thick trees and had time to dig in...their morale would stay high even under some pretty heavy fire. And if their commander is in close proximity, even more so. Experience also factored into the morale equation. Conversely, young troops left in the open with no commanding officer nearby were next to worthless (they'd simply run away and refuse to fight for several minutes). And even those dug-in, experienced guys HATED to take flak fire, meaning you simply could NOT just glob troops somewhere and let them go on auto. You really had to consider ALL these factors intelligently to win.

Can't Civ3 use a lot of that? Terrain can affect morale easily enough. Experience can affect morale. Being dug-in would be easy to do. Even being flanked (I'm thinking stacked combat here) can be factored in. Etc.

Many companies shy away from morale because (quoting Ensemble Studios): "Most gamers get frustrated if their troops don't do exactly what they are told." Well, I'd get frustrated if the system were poorly or enigmatically done, but if it's as intuitive and balanced as we saw Sid do in Gettyburg!, I can only say:

PLEASE MAKE MORALE PART OF BATTLES IN CIV3!!!!!!!!!! (any thoughts?)

[The Viceroy]

Wasn't moral used in SMAC ?? It was quite a basic implementation, affected by government and not supply lines or battle failures.. CTP had moral of cities .. but not units.

Anyway, like the idea .. Moral plays a huge part in any battle, and watching your comrads get slaughtered .. can't be to great for you when its your turn to go over the top ..



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"Wherever wood floats, you will find the British" . Napoleon

[yin26]

Hmmm, I've forgotten most of my time with SMAC. Yes, if it was used, it was at the governmental level with SE, which would not be satisfactory for Civ3. I really hope Sid pulls through on this one as morale would truly make the war side of things so much more interesting.

[Biddles]

Morale in SMAC was simply the experience level of the unit. It had nothing to do with the factors that yin suggested (Which by the way, I think would be a great addition to the game).

One more factor that should be included: previous combat. If your units have been losing consistently then they should get a morale penalty in fighting troops of that civ, until they get a few wins up.

[Biddles]

Sorry, double.
[This message has been edited by Biddles (edited February 27, 2001).]

[yin26]

Ah, yes. It's coming back to me now. Thanks, Biddles. Green and Veteran units, right? Man, for some reason almost all my SMAC memories are gone! Well, the other factors should make it in as well to really round out the combat model.

[The Viceroy]

So your right ... actually, I think the moral was something to do with Probe Teams ??? .. but either way, it was government based...



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"Wherever wood floats, you will find the British" . Napoleon

[tmarcl]

quote: Originally posted by Biddles on 02-27-2001 05:04 AM One more factor that should be included: previous combat. If your units have been losing consistently then they should get a morale penalty in fighting troops of that civ, until they get a few wins up.

The only problem I have with this is that the way combat works now, if you lose, you're dead. There's no way for morale to enter into it. By lose, I'm refering to the total loss of hit points. A win, IMO, is the complete destruction of the enemy unit.

Marc

[Bender]

Imperialism implemented a solid morale system. I understand that the battle situations used there are not applicable to Civ III, but the idea that routed troops may flee the battlefield is one worth pursuing.

[yin26]

Good point.

That was elegantly solved in Gettysburg! by having routed units retreat from battle for a number of minutes. They could be rallied faster, however, by a charismatic leader (though they were still out of action for a while). This eliminates keeping track of wins-losses etc.

So in Civ3, if morale drops below a certain level, your units would automatically retreat for a number of turns. One could, of course, give chase and try to destroy them completely. But given enough turns (less time if a leader is nearby), these units could rally and come back at full-morale (minus, of course, any troops lost in the stack).

I suppose they could come back at less morale until they get a victory or something, but having to wait out several turns seems simple and effective enough. Perhaps nice little bonus would be:

If you order units of low morale to engage in combat, there is a percentage chance of their disbanding completely! This might be especially true if they are facing the same units that routed them in the first place. You might get a message like this:

"Sir, morale is dangerously low! Shall I order an attack anyway?" Then imagine them disappearing from the map entirely, or perhaps even joining the enemy ranks in protest. This would really force you to be far more careful with your troops.
[This message has been edited by yin26 (edited February 28, 2001).]

[Biddles]

By lose, I meant as a civilization. If your units are being consistently destroyed by civX then the rest of your units would not be happy going into battle against civX units (If you know your going to lose, you wouldn't be happy about fighting). Maybe you should have this penalty for attacking but not for defense - you don't want to march to certain death but you will still defend yourself as best as you can.

I would like to see Yin's idea incorporated in there somewhere. Units being routed sounds good.

[Jeje2]

quote: Originally posted by Biddles on 02-28-2001 05:27 AM Maybe you should have this penalty for attacking but not for defense - you don't want to march to certain death but you will still defend yourself as best as you can.

One way is to utilize distance.
So morale is lowered if you are too far from own(/friendly) city and/or far from supporting city (Homecity). And if in homecity a moralextra. (= You are defending your city.)

This will bring it's own new small problems but could maybe work.
(Needs more thinking of course)