Opinion on Space feature for Civ 3

[phaydor]

As a Civ player for many years, I found that the playing in space feature in Call to Power 1 was awesome! It added a whole new dimension to warfare, and was it was just plain fun to rain down terror and destruction from on high with space bombers. I also think that the creators of Call to Power 1 didn't go far enough with the concept(they couldve added spy satelite units). I also think that CTP 2 sorta sucked because they decided to remove that feature. I'm wondering what other people think. Should a space feature be added in Civ 3? Or is it just a waste of processing power?

[Sitting Bull]

The Star Ladder was my favorite. Nanite factories were incredibly powerful, a game-stopper though. But maybe that's ok, because it was fun. It came too late in the game to make much difference, more of a convienience I think.

[JosefGiven]

I liked the idea of the space-sphere level, but I thought the graphical representation didn't work. Let's see if I can explain.

The view in CtP is isometric, in the same vein as Civ II, SMAC, etc. Therefore, something hanging above a ground tile should appear to be visibly above it.

In CtP, the graphics for your space-stations/colonies whatever they're called, are drawn directly over the top of the tile they're 'hovering' over, so they look like they're hanging over a tile a few steps closer to the view-point of the player.

Did I explain that well enough? Has anyone else noticed this?

Anyway, if this (merely cosmetic) problem is fixed, I don't see why it shouldn't go into Civ III (Space-Bombers were one of the few CtP specific units that I actually liked, they kind of reminded me of Imperial TIE bombers, y'know? ).

Orbital Space exploration is much more feasable than the idea of settlements on the bottom of the sea, for crying out loud. Mind you, let's have it so that your space colonies can only reach a very limited maximum size, and merely act as repair facilities/orbital factories...Who wants to spend their life in orbit? It's also better than the 'Extended Original' concept in ToT. If a Civ comes up with this here Hyper-string Theory, then why can't it visit every bloomin' planet in the universe?



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Josef Given
josefgiven@hotmail.com

[EnochF]

Too many people actively dislike space cities. I don't think adding them to Civ3 is the right decision.

But I definitely want the game to be customizable enough for me to add space cities if I want.

Perhaps they could arrange a system for multiple "levels" to colonize, rather like ToT... as long as they keep it simple.

The Star Ladder was the coolest thing in CTP.

[MrFun]

Meanwhile, I am chanting, "NO space! NO space! NO space! NO space!"

[bagdar]

I was one of those people who didn't like space cities. Space Warfare is a good idea, and it was nice that ctp had it, but I think sky-cities are useless. Besides, this is a question about how far the tech tree of Civ III goes. I think it is very much unlikely that it'll go that far.

[Roman]

I am vehemently opposed to the tech tree of Civ 3 reaching into the future at all. Therefore I hope there will be no space cities, or anything of the sort. Of course I have nothing against say spy sattelites or a space station that helps your research (slightly, but cost a lot - no concrete examples given, ehm), because these already exist. However, that does not require a separate space layer to implement.
Obviously, I am sure it will be possible to modify Civ 3 to be a space based strategy game for those who so desire. It has been already possible with Civ 2, so it will be again.
For me, though, no future techs!!!!!

[Cyclotron]

I agree that multiple shells are a good idea... has anyone thought of and undersea shell, for Subs or mines, if applicable?

I am also opposed to far future techs and cities in space, but sattelites should be included, as well as a possible wonder (ISS, GlobeSat, etc). Combat units in space are a bit much... but ICBMs could certainly use the space level to travel.

What if nukes took two turns to hit... one to launch into the space layer, and one to move and then descend? This would allow anti-missle systems to exist and even STAR WARS (not the movie) type anti-missile defences, via sattelite.

[Trachmir]

No future techs!!! When exactly do you plan to stop the tech tree... Before Human Cloning or Genetic Manipulation? Before Fusion? Before 'Mechs? Before Nanotech? Before Cybernetics? Before Neural Interfaces?

All of these things we either are doing or can do, with the exceptions of Nanotech & Neural Interfaces which will come into there own in a few years...

What you might consider future tech is in fact not-yet-implemented modern technology... I agree that CIV3 shouldn't go too far (Like SMAC), but at-least as far as CTP2.

Additionally, I have always hated the FUTURE ADVANCE technology... my style of play is always towards a small but well-maintained civ that has an edge in tech. I hated having to change my entire military strategy (Quality over Quantity), in Civ2 because I was losing my tech edge that I worked for because all I could get was "Future Tech".

As for Space Cities, no... they were unrealistic, but there deffinatly should be orbital research stations/military bases, and orbital tactics should be implemented (America today, is working on Scramjets that leave orbit to re-enter over its target)

But include Sea Colonies (limit max. pop based on tech, or special city improvements), they are feasible today... and on a planet with less land mass, would already be in use.

[Roman]

I must reiterate my strong opposition to futuristic technologies. While I can swallow if just about anything in Civ 3 and still buy the game, future tech is the only thing which would get me thinking before doing so.
In Civ 3, I define future tech as anything that we cannot currently do with our level of technology without further research. For example, nanotech exists to a degree in that we can now built miniature chemical reaction chambers on a chip or a CD, but we cannot make nanobots that replicate themselves, build things, etc. Hence, as far as I am concerned, nanotech is out for Civ 3, since the technology is not advanced enough in its current state to be important enough for inclusion into Civ 3. Otherwise it would be impossible to provide the rationale for stopping the tech tree at any particular point, as already at present we have the theoretical basis for technologies that could eventually in the distant future mature so much as to enable us to do prractically anything.
As far as genetic engeneering and cloning is concerned, these are current technologies, but the only possible effect I can see them having on the game in their present state is increasing food production. Perhaps these could lead to a tile improvement "genetically modified plant farm" which would increase food production (and possibly unhappiness).

[madad]

I think Civ3 should have a heavy space element to the game. In Civ2 the idea that nothing happened as far as space between the Apollo Program and building a spaceship that can travel the star's is just plain silly!!
Some things I would like to add:
Much more detailed stuff using satellites.


Spy satellites: Get updates of enemy states - troop movements etc.

Telecommunication: Increase effect of television, trade etc.

Scientific research satellites: Increase science production

Explorer satellites: send to explore space
For example as soon as Astronomy is discovered - the largest and closest planets in the solar system are discovered. When space technology is made availiable such satellites can be sent out to get details on such planets - as size, gravity, atmosphere etc. Added to this a more advanced satellite could map the planet - say when radar becomes available.
Launch vehicles: rockets -> space planes etc
Space port improvement to a city or region
Orbitals:
Have different kinds of orbital, say one which is purely commercial, privately-owned etc. and ones which are owned by the civilisation. Allow orbitals to have several functions - Ie. become a bit like space cities.
I reckon on cap of population should be applied - but changed over time. Allow improvements to be made to orbitals etc. There shouldn't be a fixed limit on the number of orbitals or population in space - just penalties when too many are produced.
Colony bases:
Factors such as atmosphere, etc should be considered. Behave like normal cities

[MrFun]

Then see if you can get a group of people to create a game called Space Civilization.

I just did not like the idea of having orbital cities in Call to Power without any game time to develop them and to wait 40 turns to produce one space unit at that late point in the game.

Where is the time for space and orbital cities??????

[Grumbold]

Orbital cities as CtP represented them are a complete nonsense and I'm glad they played no part in CtP2. Orbital stations, civilian and military satellites, Hubble like telescopes and zero-G orbital laboratories would be much better.

I'm expecting Civ-3 to have a far more appropriate ending than Civ II. Building a successful interstellar spaceship capable of carrying 40,000 people is not appropriate when they are ignoring all the intermediate space steps necessary to develop the technology.

[DrFell]

I agree with Roman that there shouldnt be millions of silly futuristic techs available. I prefer the approach of civ2, introducing a few techs we could realistically have and be able to use in the next 20 years (I still want civ3 to finish in 2020). If you want to add such techs, the game should be customisable enough that they can be added with ease. I always saw civ as being mainly a historical and modern day game. I think adding too many 'sci-fi' techs would really spoil that.

[Ralf]

quote: Originally posted by phaydor on 02-06-2001 03:17 PM Should a space feature be added in Civ 3?

No

quote: Or is it just a waste of processing power?

Yes