Positive Ctp 2 lesson

[Roman]

I realize some people like Ctp 2 and some don't, but despite what some people may consider a controversial title, the aim of this thread is not to cause an argument about it. Somebody supports PW and others the settler system and both are fine by me.
I believe that Ctp 2 has at least one positive lesson for Civ 3 that everyone can agree on. The issue is customizability. Unlike in Civ 2, in Ctp 2 almost everything can be modified due to a much greater variety of textfiles and a dedicated language called SLIC. Moreover, most variables in Ctp2 have no limits artificially set for them. For example you can add an unlimited amount of new techs/units/improvements/etc., create a map of any size you wish, as long as your computer has enough RAM to handle it. You can also play with up to 31 Civs at the same time if you choose to do so. That is what the Civ 3 team should have a long and serious look at.
On the other hand, modification in Ctp 2 is more complicated as all variables are contained in more than one text file, so it is not easy to modify anythinng. Civ 3 should try to make it less complicated, but it is undoubtable that in Ctp 2 the potential for almost unlimited modification is there and Civ 3 out to take note.

[yin26]

Very good point. However, I would just like to add one thing: Please do NOT make us go to text files for things that should be easily done in-game. For example, having to modify a text file just so I can get random civs in my game is **coug** **cough** something best left in another game.

[Ferdi]

Don't forget that customizability means more complicated work for the developers and thus more risks to have bugs in the final product. I am not sure that customizability a la ctp2 is necessary. Most of us do not have time and/or desire do to such modifications. Most of us want first and foremost a funny and well balanced game! Customizability is secondary if the game is well designed.

[EnochF]

quote: Customizability is secondary if the game is well designed.

Okay, somebody get him out of here...

[MarkG]

quote: Originally posted by yin26 on 02-06-2001 05:04 AM For example, having to modify a text file just so I can get random civs in my game is **coug** **cough** something best left in another game.

that was a bug not a feature

[Ralf]

quote: Originally posted by cyclotron7 on 02-06-2001 12:01 PM Customizing is fun and important, but gameplay must come first,

OK.

quote: I would much rather have a really good game with no customizability than some crappy **** with the ability to do all sorts of editing and stuff. Get it?

No.

Customization is one of the top three all-important priorities that towers high above anything else:

1: Better & more effective AI-response.
2: Better gameplay, interface & transparent game-mechanics.
3: Better customization & personalization.

Above three constitutes a tree-legged stool:
Take one leg away, and they can forget about any future all-time classic awards. They may still get relatively descent reviews and scores, of course. But nothing that ground-breaking.

[This message has been edited by Ralf (edited February 09, 2001).]

[Cyclotron]

quote: Originally posted by EnochF on 02-06-2001 11:49 AMOkay, somebody get him out of here...

Huh? I think the guy is right. Customizing is fun and important, but gameplay must come first, like he said! I would much rather have a really good game with no customizability than some crappy **** with the ability to do all sorts of editing and stuff. Get it?

[Cyclotron]

quote: Originally posted by EnochF on 02-06-2001 11:49 AMOkay, somebody get him out of here...

Huh? I think Ferdi is right. Customizing is fun and important, but gameplay must come first, like he said! I would much rather have a really good game with no customizability than some crappy **** with the ability to do all sorts of editing and stuff. Get it?

[Cyclotron]

Oops... could a forum leader delete one of those for me?

[Roman]

I could not have put it better myself, Ralf.

[BRENNANonTHEmoor]

customize smustomizes who gives a rats azs!

Well aparently some people do like to design. Well I for one dont, but then again I did spend a few hours in the WWII senerio of CivII so I guess I am a bit of a hipocrate. I am edgy lately this Sid guy is a really **** tease! pardon my french but All these idea we have on the forum are great, we picture the game perfectly in our own ideals and yet it will never live up to absolute perfection. So how about Sid gets his lazy ass of the can and tell us his plans even if they are not set in stone so that i can have a real idea of what to expect.

P.S. sorry about the randomness

[Cyclotron]

quote: Originally posted by Ralf on 02-06-2001 03:38 PM Customization is one of the top three all-important priorities that towers high above anything else[This message has been edited by Ralf (edited February 09, 2001).]

Nope. Customization, although a nice feature and quite beneficial to the game, is far substandard to gameplay. I would much prefer that Firaxis leave out customization altogether is it would mean more time allocated to gameplay and thus better gameplay.

Note that I like customization too, but I am just reminding you that it should be lower on the list than the structure of the game itself.

[Chronus]

I have to agree with Ferdi and Cyclotron. Customization is fine but, quite frankly, I can do without it. Even when I did have the time, it wasn't big on my fun list.

Sheesh, ten years ago, I would have loved customization. I guess it's just all part of the ageing process . . . ;-)

[Henrik]

Customization is important! Gameplay is even nore so, but they would just dare to leave customization out of the game!

[Biddles]

Henrik is right. Of course gameplay is important, no-one is denying that. But if we can't change the game it will be very VERY annoying. Who here hasn't stuffed around with the gamefiles. I've been trying that since I tried to make Star Wars Civ1 at the age of 11. Easy Customization is one of those things you can't leave out. It's like units or cities in that respect.

By the way, that version of civ1 had to be deleted when the game cracked up on me.